New Hunter Here! Advice Needed.

[sage5907]

I made 10 trips from Oklahoma to Colorado to hunt elk, deer and bearand from that I took away some definite opinions. First, I literally hate to hunt on steep black timber slopes covered with spruce and fir trees. I like to hunt in areas with pine, pinion, juniper, oak and aspen trees because it's easier to get around and find game. Next, I found that you don't have to go to the tallest and steepest mountains to find big trophy animals. I much prefer to hunt flatter broken land. You are up against short seasons so if you get socked in by bad weather it can literally ruin a hunt. When the snow, ice and wind comes it's easier to get around on flatter land so have a secondary plan so you can move to another area if needed. I have stayed in tents, pick-up campers, and lodges and the most important thing is to stay warm and dry at night. I took my wife with me on most of the hunts and when I came home without any game we still had a good vacation.

 

[WrongHanded]

Getting deep into national wilderness and not being able to car camp and hike for an elk in Colorado isn’t my understanding of any research I’ve done on this issue. The vast majority of hunters are not riding horses miles deep into wilderness to achieve an elk.

Not saying it’s easy or likely but waiting years to save up for a major outfitter is not a requirement as stated above.

However, I haven’t done it, so I’ll shut up now.

I have to say that over the years that I've been in Colorado, no one I've ever talked to about their own Elk hunts has ever relayed using horses or making camp deep into the wilderness. It's either:

1) Drive out to a meadow. Wait in the truck. See Elk. Get out. Shoot 400yds. Get back in truck. Go pick up Elk and go home.

Or.. 2) Hit a dirt road. Camp close to the road. Hike in a few miles. Spot and Stalk. Pack out meat in a few trips. Break camp. Go home.

The areas I'm looking at would be in line with 2.

 

[old heeler]

For elk in CO, here, at the eponymous Elk Mountain, and North up through the Troublesome Creek Basin.

https://www.google.com/maps/@40.0120093,-105.0847994,14z?authuser=0&hl=en

For reliable factory ammo, hard to beat the Federal Fusion, 180 grs. Lent my BIL a 30-06 last Fall. His ability to point the correct end in the right direction is in dispute, yet a few miles north of Elk Mountain, he scored at 130 yards.
.
My honest and sincere advice for your first elk hunt is get an outfitter. Car camp and hike aren't going to get your first elk. You need to get deep into national wilderness. That means horses or mules, a wall tent, and stove. Do your first hunt with a guide and let him sweat all the gear. After the first elk, you can decide what you want to invest in etc. Just enjoy the hunt first time out.

..

If your 2 miles north Elk mtn must of had good long walk. I walked in basin at TH north instead of going trail I took old rd to the west good country.

 

[LRDGCO]

I have to say that over the years that I've been in Colorado, no one I've ever talked to about their own Elk hunts has ever relayed using horses or making camp deep into the wilderness. It's either:

1) Drive out to a meadow. Wait in the truck. See Elk. Get out. Shoot 400yds. Get back in truck. Go pick up Elk and go home.

Or.. 2) Hit a dirt road. Camp close to the road. Hike in a few miles. Spot and Stalk. Pack out meat in a few trips. Break camp. Go home.

The areas I'm looking at would be in line with 2.

Well, best of luck with that. Looks like you didn't need advice. Funnily enough, in my conversations with people over the years about the stock market I've never heard anyone talk about the money they lost...

Make sure to wear A LOT of safety orange, and keep your head down.

 

[George P]

No doubt. And I wouldn’t use our 3 season tent for that. They make 4 season light weight tents that don’t weigh too much more than our tent (4.5 lbs) as we’ve looked at them. Winter camping has been ok (down here in TX) unless it’s windy too.

I’m not sure if I’d think it cool to have to dig my way out of my tent or not. It’s been a very long time since I’ve dealt with snow like that (lived just outside of Colorado Springs). Loved the 3 day blizzard during my birthday as a kid. Not being so young now it might well not be so cool!

You are going to want to exercise at elevation if possible. It took me a while to get used to elevation from basically sea level - and was just doing ordinary things around the house, let alone scaling a few thousand feet in cold weather with gear

 

[WrongHanded]

Well, best of luck with that. Looks like you didn't need advice. Funnily enough, in my conversations with people over the years about the stock market I've never heard anyone talk about the money they lost...

Make sure to wear A LOT of safety orange, and keep your head down.

Oh, I wouldn't say that at all. Sometimes you don't know what you don't know until you hear it. I've been doing a lot of reading, both online and from recently purchased books. Actually, @Doc7 mentioned Steve Rinella and the TV show MeatEater. He and his show are a big reason I got interested in hunting. I have a couple of his books, which I've been working my way through.

I've also been researching. Looking at maps to check for elevation changes, road closures, private property boundaries, looking at Google Earth for promising habitat and access, etc.

But this thread has still brought me some new information, and made me think about some aspects of the overall process that I hadn't previously considered. Like packing out downhill versus uphill, and potentially de-boning the meat to make that easier; the type of ammo and a realistic personal maximum shooting distance; and considering backup hunting areas for unfavorable weather where access to a primary location might prove difficult, or because the game just isn't there.

 

[George P]

You'll want to scout early and often as depending on the food/water/weather and any predators they will move; sometimes a lot further away than when you saw them last week or the month before.

Using your maps, look for sources of water like springs or seeps, then for food and cover

 

[SoonerMedic]

I'll preface by saying that I didn't read any replies. All I wanted to say was that the difference between somebody that can go shoot an animal and an ethical hunter is the shot that isn't taken.

 

[buck460XVR]

Basically, we already hike and camp a lot

Hunting is more about Outdoormanship and Woodsmanship as anything. Folks that are comfortable in the woods and know the outdoors make the progression to hunting much better than folks that feel out of place in the woods. Much of that is because folks familiar with the outdoors are also familair with how animals(both game and non-game) relate to the woods and it's ecosystem. That is at least to those folks that spend time outdoors and pay attention to it.

One thing I see in many folks new to hunting is setting their sights too high when it comes to expectations of success. This is especially true to folks than hunt public land. Sounds like you and your wife have not fallen into that pit. Hunting can be a very enjoyable experience even when one is not successful. Many of my most memorable hunting experiences do not include a dead animal in the back of my truck. Learning something new each and everytime you go out is being successful. One thing I always suggest to new hunters is to keep a journal. Include in it things like weather(prior, current and what's coming), times of day, times of year and any sightings of animals you see, even those that are not your quarry. Over time you will start to see a pattern. It also will remind you of little things that did you didn't remember or show you things that are important that you did not think important at the time. Seeing a scrape in the woods can be a random thing, but seeing one in the same place year after year may show you a natural scrape line and a good place to hunt.......at certain times of the year. Seeing turkeys in the same corner of a field everyday in the spring may seem like a random thing, but can also prove to be a pattern they use every year. You don't just need to know the pattern, but need to learn why there is a pattern. That will show you other areas that may prove similar and give you more opportunities. Learn to read topographical maps and how animals relate to terrain. Know where your quarry sleeps, not just where it eats. Like anything else in life, knowledge of the area you are hunting and the game you are after, is the key. While the best equipment helps, it is not the key to success, regardless of what manufacturers and retailers want you to believe.

 

[rodwha]

Hunting is more about Outdoormanship and Woodsmanship as anything. Folks that are comfortable in the woods and know the outdoors make the progression to hunting much better than folks that feel out of place in the woods. Much of that is because folks familiar with the outdoors are also familair with how animals(both game and non-game) relate to the woods and it's ecosystem. That is at least to those folks that spend time outdoors and pay attention to it.

One thing I see in many folks new to hunting is setting their sights too high when it comes to expectations of success. This is especially true to folks than hunt public land. Sounds like you and your wife have not fallen into that pit. Hunting can be a very enjoyable experience even when one is not successful. Many of my most memorable hunting experiences do not include a dead animal in the back of my truck. Learning something new each and everytime you go out is being successful. One thing I always suggest to new hunters is to keep a journal. Include in it things like weather(prior, current and what's coming), times of day, times of year and any sightings of animals you see, even those that are not your quarry. Over time you will start to see a pattern. It also will remind you of little things that did you didn't remember or show you things that are important that you did not think important at the time. Seeing a scrape in the woods can be a random thing, but seeing one in the same place year after year may show you a natural scrape line and a good place to hunt.......at certain times of the year. Seeing turkeys in the same corner of a field everyday in the spring may seem like a random thing, but can also prove to be a pattern they use every year. You don't just need to know the pattern, but need to learn why there is a pattern. That will show you other areas that may prove similar and give you more opportunities. Learn to read topographical maps and how animals relate to terrain. Know where your quarry sleeps, not just where it eats. Like anything else in life, knowledge of the area you are hunting and the game you are after, is the key. While the best equipment helps, it is not the key to success, regardless of what manufacturers and retailers want you to believe.

Excellent post!

 

[H&Hhunter]

I have to say that over the years that I've been in Colorado, no one I've ever talked to about their own Elk hunts has ever relayed using horses or making camp deep into the wilderness. It's either:

1) Drive out to a meadow. Wait in the truck. See Elk. Get out. Shoot 400yds. Get back in truck. Go pick up Elk and go home.

Or.. 2) Hit a dirt road. Camp close to the road. Hike in a few miles. Spot and Stalk. Pack out meat in a few trips. Break camp. Go home.

The areas I'm looking at would be in line with 2.

The exact reason most public land hunters are unsuccessful in Colorado.

 

[George P]

Yep, if you aren't going long, you're going home.........empty

 

[brewer12345]

I would suggest the following:

- Practice shooting and figure out what your rifle likes. In 30-06 you should be able to take an elk out to 400 yards. I personally will not take shots longer than 300 due to my own assessment of my vision and my appetite for risk. My Tikka shoots well with Fusion 180s and Barnes TTSX 168s, although these days I use a handload based on Partitions and Varget.

- Scout the area you plan to hunt and pay attention to what you see.

- Learn to track. Learn how to tell if the sign you see is fresh or old.

- Elk are far more wary than deer, especially as you get to third and fourth rifle seasons. Get good at being quiet as you skulk through your chosen territory. Get used to paying attention to which way the wind is blowing your scent.

- Get some shooting sticks. They make a huge difference is being able to make shots in the field.

- If at all possible, go practice on small game. Go after rabbits and squirrels with a .22. One of the things t took me a while to master is the ability to see my quarry and still remember to pause long enough to calm down and let the adrenaline flood subside so I could make a shot.

- Be in shape. The more hiking you do way up in the mountains, the better.

- If you can find an experienced hunter to learn from, do it.

 

[mustanger98]

I'll preface by saying that I didn't read any replies. All I wanted to say was that the difference between somebody that can go shoot an animal and an ethical hunter is the shot that isn't taken.

A time to kill and a time not to. Some European countries... after several years apprenticeship to legally have the big game license, the hunter is known as a thinker who knows generally how a particular animal's life or death will effect the herd and habitat.

Hunting is more about Outdoormanship and Woodsmanship as anything. Folks that are comfortable in the woods and know the outdoors make the progression to hunting much better than folks that feel out of place in the woods. Much of that is because folks familiar with the outdoors are also familair with how animals(both game and non-game) relate to the woods and it's ecosystem. That is at least to those folks that spend time outdoors and pay attention to it.

One thing I see in many folks new to hunting is setting their sights too high when it comes to expectations of success. This is especially true to folks than hunt public land. Sounds like you and your wife have not fallen into that pit. Hunting can be a very enjoyable experience even when one is not successful. Many of my most memorable hunting experiences do not include a dead animal in the back of my truck. Learning something new each and everytime you go out is being successful. One thing I always suggest to new hunters is to keep a journal. Include in it things like weather(prior, current and what's coming), times of day, times of year and any sightings of animals you see, even those that are not your quarry. Over time you will start to see a pattern. It also will remind you of little things that did you didn't remember or show you things that are important that you did not think important at the time. Seeing a scrape in the woods can be a random thing, but seeing one in the same place year after year may show you a natural scrape line and a good place to hunt.......at certain times of the year. Seeing turkeys in the same corner of a field everyday in the spring may seem like a random thing, but can also prove to be a pattern they use every year. You don't just need to know the pattern, but need to learn why there is a pattern. That will show you other areas that may prove similar and give you more opportunities. Learn to read topographical maps and how animals relate to terrain. Know where your quarry sleeps, not just where it eats. Like anything else in life, knowledge of the area you are hunting and the game you are after, is the key. While the best equipment helps, it is not the key to success, regardless of what manufacturers and retailers want you to believe.

I've heard a lot of city people... non-hunters, mostly... are uneasy in the woods during the day and scared to death at night. It'd take a lot for them to learn to just be comfortable out there. Sounds to me like all they know is there's a bear in the woods. They have no clue, not only how to relate to the woods, but how to relate to the bear who's also hunting and foraging.

The way some people use that word, "success" can be puzzling... "he went hunting, but he wasn't successful". My first question would be "did he see deer", but I've seen them act like that didn't matter because he didn't kill one that day. Outdoor television, IMO, while largely advertising, is also largely propaganda of sorts. If you let them, they'll make you feel like a failure for not killing the biggest-antlered buck every day you go out. How does that promote hunting? They don't tell you that just seeing deer up close without spooking is a high level of success. If you get there, killing or not, without all the camo/scents/whatever the industry types say you must use... I mean what are they gonna do? Say it didn't happen?

 

[brewer12345]

The way some people use that word, "success" can be puzzling... "he went hunting, but he wasn't successful". My first question would be "did he see deer", but I've seen them act like that didn't matter because he didn't kill one that day. Outdoor television, IMO, while largely advertising, is also largely propaganda of sorts. If you let them, they'll make you feel like a failure for not killing the biggest-antlered buck every day you go out. How does that promote hunting? They don't tell you that just seeing deer up close without spooking is a high level of success. If you get there, killing or not, without all the camo/scents/whatever the industry types say you must use... I mean what are they gonna do? Say it didn't happen?

I finally got my first deer last fall. It was tough because it took 3 years to get a decent tag after the last one I did not bag a deer on. But the last tag a few years ago I considered a success simply because I learned so much. I figured out the habits of the deer in that area and understood a whole lot more about stalking, tracking, the layout of the area, etc. I even had three close encounters with deer that time: once when I was "leaving a bit of myself on the mountain," once when a fog bank rolled in as I was lining up a shot (they were gone when the fog cleared), and once when the herd was sky-lined. I even got to see a huge bull elk a few times.

So when I got my tag last fall for the same place I knew where to be, where to look, how to set up my shot, and how to sneak around the area. I got within 75 yards of a cow elk herd, and I bagged my doe on the first day. Frankly, it was almost too quick since I was having fun running around the hills.

 

[Loyalist Dave]

Get in shape. …., He walks 3 to 4 miles a day, starts running bleachers at the local football field about 2 months before the hunt. He will start by running 25 and increase it every day until he is running 100. The man is 65 years old...…

AND, think about a getting a good chiropractor. I thought they were sort of quacks, and TV portrayals of them didn't help, along with documented horrific accidents associated with them. WELL I WAS STUPID..., and missed almost the entire 2014-2105 hunting season due to pain, which it turned out was due to misalignment of more than just my back. Damage done over decades. No regular pain either, except I'd often get injured while exercising. No regular pain that is, until the fall of 2014. Before the season closed in 2015 I went to see a very reputable Doctor of Chiropractic, as a sort of last resort since PT and my regular doctor were not giving me a solution that worked, and wow, the Chiropractic treatment worked. I got in a couple of small game hunts before the season ended (I missed all of deer season), and I continue to see the Chiroprator even today. I'm over 50, and right now working on dropping a good amount of weight as Captcurt recommends above. So, yes get in shape, stay in shape, and add to that skeletal alignment.

LD

 

[Loyalist Dave]

...he went hunting, but he wasn't successful". My first question would be "did he see deer", but I've seen them act like that didn't matter because he didn't kill one that day...,

"Unsuccessful hunt" = I saw nothing interesting, NOTHING. (imho)

And that is hard to do, so see nothing but a few trees.
I can remember in the past 45 years, three times when I didn't see any critters of any sort, and no "sign" of them. Which was depressing..., since it was like all the animals had gone away...kinda lonely too. It was simply too dang cold where I was and the animals had enough sense to be hold-up in thick cover keeping warm, while me, the silly human, was out there freezing my backside off.

But I've had lots of hunts, and not taken a shot...,
A hen turkey flew in and landed about 20 yards from me, and it wasn't turkey season. I'd never seen a turkey in flight in real-life before then...they have a rather LARGE wingspan..., startled me near to death. She spotted me and dashed away...they move pretty damn quick too.
I've seen kit foxes at play, a black bear and her cub at play (only for a moment at a distance since a Sow-bear and a cub near me means to me that I needed to move away from her ), I've seen a bald eagle snatch up a bird in flight, I've had a chipmunk come and sit on the toe of my boot and start to eat a seed, and look up at me with what looked like an expression of curiosity and NO fear, I saw a bobcat for the first time in my area this year, I've seen woodpeckers of many types, hawks of many types, ravens giving hawks a hard time, owls, snakes, racoons, opossums, skunks....,

I even saw a fox dash past me one time, then go up a partially downed tree, reversing direction and jump from that partially downed tree to an adjacent, standing tree, that was leaning over a small creek... then down to the far side of said creek and dash away..., all the while I was sitting on a log about ten yards from the fox, with my .40 caliber squirrel rifle (and fox were in season), but the fox didn't care about me one bit....and was rather frantic.... to be followed less than a minute later by a couple of dozen fox hounds and four riders. (Which explained the fox's hurry). One of the funniest experiences in my life was watching two-dozen hounds yelping and milling about trying to figure out what happened to the fox's trail. Needless to say with them hounds and four mounted hunters, I wasn't going to see any more squirrels that day, and no chance of a deer wandering by either..., STILL IT WAS WORTH IT!

Never did find out if the dog's ever got back on that fox's trail....I wasn't going to tell the riders what I'd seen the fox do..., a fox that brave to come that close to me I figured deserved some respect and a break.....I still laugh about that even today....I thought that was a pretty successful day.

And yes there were days when I bagged goose, or ducks, or quail, or pheasants, or chukkar, or rabbit, or squirrel, or a fox, or deer, or doves, and those were successful days too..., but they wouldn't have been unsuccessful if I had not harvested anything.



LD

 

[rodwha]

The way some people use that word, "success" can be puzzling... "he went hunting, but he wasn't successful". My first question would be "did he see deer", but I've seen them act like that didn't matter because he didn't kill one that day. Outdoor television, IMO, while largely advertising, is also largely propaganda of sorts. If you let them, they'll make you feel like a failure for not killing the biggest-antlered buck every day you go out. How does that promote hunting? They don't tell you that just seeing deer up close without spooking is a high level of success. If you get there, killing or not, without all the camo/scents/whatever the industry types say you must use... I mean what are they gonna do? Say it didn't happen?

Indeed. Of course I don’t want to go home empty handed by the last day, but hunting for me isn’t just about hunting. I absolutely love the quiet (the sounds of nature), the peacefulness, which is relaxation for me. I enjoy watching the critters. I even, for some stupid reason, enjoy waking up too early, hurrying up, and getting out in the freezing cold darkness. And then there’s the camp fire and what’s cooking on it in the evening with a few beers. Can’t beat that!

 

[.308 Norma]

) Drive out to a meadow. Wait in the truck. See Elk. Get out. Shoot 400yds. Get back in truck. Go pick up Elk and go home.

Or.. 2) Hit a dirt road. Camp close to the road. Hike in a few miles. Spot and Stalk. Pack out meat in a few trips. Break camp. Go home.

The areas I'm looking at would be in line with 2.

Before my wife had to get a Disabled Hunter Permit (atrial fibrillation) the way we usually hunted elk (and mule deer too for that matter) was also more in line with 2. I still hunt that way to some extent, but my wife has to stick pretty close to the truck nowadays, and I don’t get so far away that I can’t get back in a little while to help out if I hear her shoot.

At any rate, one thing you might have to think about WrongHanded, is that if you get an elk or deer down so far from the road that you can’t get all the meat out the same day, the coyotes are going to have a feast (around here anyway) unless you can find a nearby tree to hang the meat in. Magpies like elk and deer meat too, but they won’t eat as much overnight as a few coyotes can, and will if they can get to it. So carry some rope with you. I guarantee rope will come in handy even if you don’t have to hang 3 elk quarters in a tree overnight.

Depending on the weather, you might also need some bags to put the meat in when you hang it. If it’s warm weather, the flies and wasps will be all over your meat if it’s not in bags. You can buy cotton bags to put your elk quarters in at most any sporting goods store. Or if you can make your own if you or your wife is handy with a sewing machine.

I think a large, external frame pack, or even just a pack frame is better than an internal frame pack for hauling meat on your back. I used my huge, expensive, internal frame backpack for packing out a boned out deer once. Even though I put the meat in garbage bags, I wasn't careful enough about it, and my pack was still kind of a mess afterwards.

Stay hydrated. Carry enough water…which will be more than you think you need unless you’re experienced in high altitude, back country travel. You breath harder (more often) at high altitude, and every time you exhale, that’s water vapor you see in the air. Besides that, getting a large, dead animal out of the hills is hard work. My dad always said, “Once you pull the trigger, the fun’s over.” He was right.

 

[George P]

Your post reminds me of a friend I had in Nevada who drew a Mountain Goat tag. He shot his animal at about 8:30; the shot was only about 300 yards. The issue was the4 steep shale-covered canyon in between. 1500' down and up to get the animal and then 1500' down up to get back to where he was. Took him over 12 hours, and that goat doesn't weight near what an elk does.

 

[Captcurt]

Getting deep into national wilderness and not being able to car camp and hike for an elk in Colorado isn’t my understanding of any research I’ve done on this issue. The vast majority of hunters are not riding horses miles deep into wilderness to achieve an elk.
.

My friend who I mentioned in an earlier post used to pack into the Ragged Wilderness about 6 miles from the trailhead. They would spend 2 weeks living in a wall tent with a wood stove. They took 4 or 5 mules and usually brought out an elk or two. This is until some magazine wrote an article about the wilderness area being a good place. Then the place got crowded. Last year he hunted New Mexico.

 

[Doc7]

That’s fine and certainly an awesome and great way to hunt. Trust me, I know it and I want to do it.

But it’s a disservice to discourage future new hunters by making it sound like there isn’t also a way to be successful without living out of a wall tent on horseback 6 miles into the wilderness. There are elk on accessible ground that people who work hard can find and hunt successfully.

 

[brewer12345]

Your post reminds me of a friend I had in Nevada who drew a Mountain Goat tag. He shot his animal at about 8:30; the shot was only about 300 yards. The issue was the4 steep shale-covered canyon in between. 1500' down and up to get the animal and then 1500' down up to get back to where he was. Took him over 12 hours, and that goat doesn't weight near what an elk does.

That is why you don't take some shots even when they are otherwise perfect, especially if you are by yourself. I got lucky with my doe and shot her on the ridge directly above the truck. Even so, it was most of a mile drag after gutting and I was somewhat taxed. If that deer had been down the shale slope behind the ride, I would have had a much tougher time since I have been down and back up that big pile of gravel and scree and it is tough to negotiate even unladen.

 

[mustanger98]

brewer12345 (post #40), I was 32 when I killed my first deer... a spike on the hill behind my house. I'd been hunting longer then than you've been now. I agree though... filling your tag that quick is good luck, but cuts you short on good hunting time. Several cool posts on all that here.

I have to deal with one impatient guy who can't wait to fill his tags and be done with it. He's not a professional hunter either. He just can't take the time to get out there and observe like we're talking about. Know what his version is? Wait till the deer walks through the backyard, then run out the door and try to shoot 'em. It qualifies for pursuit and taking of game, but severely lacks any spirit of hunting.

 

[brewer12345]

brewer12345 (post #40), I was 32 when I killed my first deer... a spike on the hill behind my house. I'd been hunting longer then than you've been now. I agree though... filling your tag that quick is good luck, but cuts you short on good hunting time. Several cool posts on all that here.

I did not start hunting until I was 38. I spend a LOT of days in the field now, though. I enjoy big game hunts, but most of my time is spent pursuing cottontails, jacks, squirrels, grouse, pheasants, doves and waterfowl. Mostly I just enjoy being out in the wild and the act of the hunt. I prefer eating different species more or less, but I have fun hunting them all.