New Ruger Wrangler.... I'm confused

[TTv2]

Does that mean that nobody should buy the fixed sight Rough Rider, or any SAA revolver with fixed sights?

If they're meant for historical accuracy or nostalgia then no, but for any other use or purpose, yes.

I'm sure that many CAS shooters and western buffs would take exception to that, with their expensive Ubertis and Vaqueros.

Those are not $200 guns, nor would they better than a comparable model with adj. sights.

And my Bearcat and a Ruger Single Six with fixed sights both shot close to POA.
As well as a Webley, a Colt New Service, a Remington BP revolver, and several others.

Glad somebody is happy with them.

But a Rough Rider, with glued-in barrel? Who knows?

Mine's shooting just fine.

Hell, if you want precision, buy a Single Six or a target pistol.

I mean, it's not that I'm looking for a gun to win an Olympic bullseye shooting match and a Gold medal, but when I spend money on a gun I want it to shoot as well as it can and traditional SAA sights don't give me that. There's a reason why Ruger made the Bearcat with adjustable sights, there's a reason near all their Single Six/Nine/Ten line have adjustable sights: people shoot better with them. Why is it that in order to for me to shoot better with a .22 revolver I have to spend $400 more for a Single Six with steel frame and over-engineering for a .22?

It's myopic thinking like this that has forced people to spend 2 weeks of pay for a gun that shoots well. Everybody makes the comparison that back in the late 19th Century the price of a good revolver was a month's pay, but it's 2019, not 1827 anymore. Manufacturing tech is better, guns are made better and cheaper, but the cost of living is sky freaking high today compared to 150 years ago and we're not using guns to defend ourselves everyday like people were back then. We're using them for entertainment with the possibility of having to use them in an unpleasant situation. In both those aspects, a gun I shoot better with is better than one I shoot worse with.

 

[TTv2]

although i don’t “need” one i’m all in for new ruger wrangler. looking at it im wondering if 22lr is only the starting caliber, as 38sp was with the initial ruger lcr. since a single action revolver can handle semiauto pistol ammo without moon clips how about a gamechanging $250 wrangler in 9mm or even 380acp? both rounds are generally cheaper than 38sp and alot of folks who like a ccw semiauto pistol in 9mm or 380acp might enjoy a plinker or woodswalker in the same caliber. at least i would!

It's a novel idea that may be worth considering, single action .38's are not common, but I could see one of them in the Wrangler and when I see how much space there is between the chambers, how thick the barrel is, I wouldn't doubt it if the design of the Wrangler was to accommodate larger calibers. The cylinder looks like it's sized for .22 LR, so it would have to be a relatively short cartridge, like .32 S&W Long, so for the longer .38 the frame would have to be lengthened to accommodate it. I'd be willing to bet Ruger would make a longer frame model for .38

Something like .32 or .380 ACP would not be impossible, nor a 5 shot .45 ACP. Those are all low pressure cartridges, so the frame could probably handle them, but there's a reason why Heritage doesn't make their centerfire revolvers in the Aluminum frame. It could be they don't have the engineering capacity or confidence to make such a revolver, while Ruger has as many engineers as a teenager has pimples.

 

[ThomasT]

I hope they show up soon. I am sure I will buy one too. Fixed sights and all. If I need to I can "adjust" fixed sights for the ammo I want to use. I am going to guess they will send it with a front blade a little on the tall side so it can be filed down. This to me is a rough use gun for the tractor like someone else said. Or a truck or boat gun. Those Swamp People that like to shoot Gators may have a use for this gun.

I don't know how much pressure the aluminum frame could stand up to but I would love to have one in 32 Long. And I can dream for ever and it will never happen. But what a great trail and trap line gun this should make. I have looked at the RR but the quality just didn't work for me. This should do it. And its a heck of a lot better than the cheap RG 22 single action that was my very first hand gun. What a POS that was.

 

[Jim Watson]

Sixty years ago, Ruger made the Single Six Lightweight.
All aluminum except the barrel and lockwork. Later made with steel cylinder.

Looks like they have rediscovered a market niche with the aid of cheaper manufacturing of mung metal.

 

[Old Stumpy]

TTv2 seems to be the one die-hard defender of the Rough Rider after everyone else has agreed that the Wrangler is a better revolver.

And those who are relatively clueless will shoot it a few times, get patterns that look like they were shooting a shotgun and proceed to complain it's "not accurate." You would be amazed at the things people will complain about. I just think it would be smart for Ruger to offer adj. sights on the basis of improved performance.

This comment seems particularly ridiculous. How would fixed sights produce a group that is less accurate than adjustable sights? Fixed sights may not shoot exactly to point of aim but they are no less accurate. I can back that up with 40+ years of shooting experience. It is how well defined the sights are that determines group size, not adjustability.

I suspect that no matter what Ruger did to the Wrangler to make TTv2 happy that he would still find an objection to justify pushing the Rough Rider.

But, let's face it. With it's primitive safety, clunky appearance, glued-in barrel, and breakable leaf springs, the only thing that will save it is if they cut the prices even more. It's a product that has had it's day, and that day is over.

Ruger has already published the owner's manual for the Wrangler on-line and it is identical internally to the Single Six. Same springs, same transfer bar safety, same loading gate interlock, same mainspring, and a screwed-in barrel.

That Real Guns article with the link in post #57 is excellent. Do look at it.

Many shooters have said that they would prefer to own a Ruger .22 revolver if only the prices were more affordable. Well, now they are.
Ruger has beaten Heritage at their own game.

 

[GunnyUSMC]

My God, TTv2! You must have spent half the day posting in this topic. Well it was more like two hours.
I don’t think that Heritage will be going out of business, just going to get some good competition.
You are correct that some people will spend as little as possible on things they want. Even if there was just a $30 difference in the price of the two guns, some would op to save the $30.
You are also right that most shooters that haven’t bought a Heritage were not going to buy one anyway. I’m one of those shooters.
I’ve shot the Heritage guns and find that they shoot pretty good, but my Super Single Six Convertible shoots much better.
The Heritage Rough Rider is not a new design. It’s one that has changed hands a few times. The design came out of West Germany after WWII when everyone was watching Westerns. One of the Companies was B. Schmidt Ostheim / Rhoen. I have one of their Model 21s. Picked it up at a pawn shop for $80.
I like the older ones better then the Rough Rider because, the finish was much better and it doesn’t have that butt ugly safety.
This little gun is a hoot to shoot.


You might not know it but video games can be a big seller for guns. Not long ago the game Battlefield 1 hit the market. It was based on WWI. Not long after it came out the demand for weapons from WWI started going up in price.
Right now one of the hottest video games is Red Dead Redemption II. It a western game set in 1886 ant you’re an outlaw. Kids and young adults are spending hours didn’t around doing outlaw stuff and getting into gun fights.


The demand for single action revolves is going to go up and the Ruger Wrangler will be hitting the market at the perfect time. Most of this market will be lookin for guns that look like the ones in the game. The one they call the Cattleman is a SAA. I think that Ruger and Heritage will both do good.

 

[TTv2]

TTv2 seems to be the one die-hard defender of the Rough Rider after everyone else has agreed that the Wrangler is a better revolver.



This comment seems particularly ridiculous. How would fixed sights produce a group that is less accurate than adjustable sights? Fixed sights may not shoot exactly to point of aim but they are no less accurate. I can back that up with 40+ years of shooting experience. It is how well defined the sights are that determines group size, not adjustability.

I suspect that no matter what Ruger did to the Wrangler to make TTv2 happy that he would still find an objection to justify pushing the Rough Rider.

But, let's face it. With it's primitive safety, clunky appearance, glued-in barrel, and breakable leaf springs, the only thing that will save it is if they cut the prices even more. It's a product that has had it's day, and that day is over.

Ruger has already published the owner's manual for the Wrangler on-line and it is identical internally to the Single Six. Same springs, same transfer bar safety, same loading gate interlock, same mainspring, and a screwed-in barrel.

The issue with fixed sights is because they're difficult to acquire the right picture, people will have a more difficult time getting repeatable shots. Not to mention those with less than great eyesight will struggle more with the fixed sights vs adjustable ones.

Look, you can bash the Heritage's appearance all you want and make the leaf springs out to be trash that will break the minute the hammer is first cocked, but the safety does nothing to affect shootability or performance and the Loctited barrel has held up for many people over years of use.

At this point, you're just grasping at straws and appear to hate the Heritage whilst being a fanboy for Ruger when they've had QC issues that should put them to shame for the prices of their guns. When Heritage or Taurus have a QC issue, it's proof positive they are hucksters slapping garbage together to steal people's money.

If after a year people have had zero issues with the Wrangler, I'll give it its due, but I'm not gonna sing praises on a gun that has yet to even appear on store shelves yet. In 2019, just because it has Ruger's name on it doesn't mean it's a beacon of craftsmanship and quality. Then, if after people have overwhelming praise for the Wrangler and Ruger offers them in adjustable sight models, you can bet I'll be buying one so long as it holds more than 6 rounds.

 

[TTv2]

My God, TTv2! You must have spent half the day posting in this topic. Well it was more like two hours.
I don’t think that Heritage will be going out of business, just going to get some good competition.
You are correct that some people will spend as little as possible on things they want. Even if there was just a $30 difference in the price of the two guns, some would op to save the $30.
You are also right that most shooters that haven’t bought a Heritage were not going to buy one anyway. I’m one of those shooters.
I’ve shot the Heritage guns and find that they shoot pretty good, but my Super Single Six Convertible shoots much better.
The Heritage Rough Rider is not a new design. It’s one that has changed hands a few times. The design came out of West Germany after WWII when everyone was watching Westerns. One of the Companies was B. Schmidt Ostheim / Rhoen. I have one of their Model 21s. Picked it up at a pawn shop for $80.
I like the older ones better then the Rough Rider because, the finish was much better and it doesn’t have that butt ugly safety.
This little gun is a hoot to shoot.
View attachment 837407

You might not know it but video games can be a big seller for guns. Not long ago the game Battlefield 1 hit the market. It was based on WWI. Not long after it came out the demand for weapons from WWI started going up in price.
Right now one of the hottest video games is Red Dead Redemption II. It a western game set in 1886 ant you’re an outlaw. Kids and young adults are spending hours didn’t around doing outlaw stuff and getting into gun fights.
View attachment 837410

The demand for single action revolves is going to go up and the Ruger Wrangler will be hitting the market at the perfect time. Most of this market will be lookin for guns that look like the ones in the game. The one they call the Cattleman is a SAA. I think that Ruger and Heritage will both do good.
View attachment 837412

Believe me, I'm well aware of Red Dead 2's existence as it's the main reason I bought a Playstation 4 and I'm sure it's going to start a drive towards buying single action revolvers and lever action rifles.

Now if only we could get a Triple A game set in the Civil War so the Burnside Carbine would get more exposure and hopefully spark an interest in reproductions, I would be a happy boy.

 

[OrangeCat]

You might not know it but video games can be a big seller for guns. Not long ago the game Battlefield 1 hit the market. It was based on WWI. Not long after it came out the demand for weapons from WWI started going up in price.
Right now one of the hottest video games is Red Dead Redemption II. It a western game set in 1886 ant you’re an outlaw. Kids and young adults are spending hours didn’t around doing outlaw stuff and getting into gun fights.

The demand for single action revolves is going to go up and the Ruger Wrangler will be hitting the market at the perfect time. Most of this market will be lookin for guns that look like the ones in the game. The one they call the Cattleman is a SAA. I think that Ruger and Heritage will both do good.

Not going to lie but I had to watch a sick older relative last year and watched a lot of ''The Rifleman' it started to effect me a little...... I spent an ungodly amount of time looking at lever guns this year. So you may have a point about timing.

 

[243winxb]

I know this to be true.

The issue with fixed sights is because they're difficult to acquire the right picture, people will have a more difficult time getting repeatable shots. Not to mention those with less than great eyesight will struggle more with the fixed sights vs adjustable ones

Fixed sights are for short barrel and/or close range personal protection firearms. Imo.

Many new owners want cheap and buy fixed sight guns. Then they come back and complain bullet hits a foot low and have no idea how to adjust it.

The Ruger looks nice and serves a purpose.

 

[troy fairweather]

My God, TTv2! You must have spent half the day posting in this topic. Well it was more like two hours.
I don’t think that Heritage will be going out of business, just going to get some good competition.
You are correct that some people will spend as little as possible on things they want. Even if there was just a $30 difference in the price of the two guns, some would op to save the $30.
You are also right that most shooters that haven’t bought a Heritage were not going to buy one anyway. I’m one of those shooters.
I’ve shot the Heritage guns and find that they shoot pretty good, but my Super Single Six Convertible shoots much better.
The Heritage Rough Rider is not a new design. It’s one that has changed hands a few times. The design came out of West Germany after WWII when everyone was watching Westerns. One of the Companies was B. Schmidt Ostheim / Rhoen. I have one of their Model 21s. Picked it up at a pawn shop for $80.
I like the older ones better then the Rough Rider because, the finish was much better and it doesn’t have that butt ugly safety.
This little gun is a hoot to shoot.
View attachment 837407

You might not know it but video games can be a big seller for guns. Not long ago the game Battlefield 1 hit the market. It was based on WWI. Not long after it came out the demand for weapons from WWI started going up in price.
Right now one of the hottest video games is Red Dead Redemption II. It a western game set in 1886 ant you’re an outlaw. Kids and young adults are spending hours didn’t around doing outlaw stuff and getting into gun fights.
View attachment 837410

The demand for single action revolves is going to go up and the Ruger Wrangler will be hitting the market at the perfect time. Most of this market will be lookin for guns that look like the ones in the game. The one they call the Cattleman is a SAA. I think that Ruger and Heritage will both do good.
View attachment 837412

well said.

 

[troy fairweather]

Now if only we could get a Triple A game set in the Civil War so the Burnside Carbine would get more exposure and hopefully spark an interest in reproductions

there quite a few games.

 

[Michael Tinker Pearce]

How do you know that?

OK, Fair enough- I don't. It seems likely that the machined aluminum frame will be stronger than a zamac frame, and the safety system is, to my mind, superior to the system used on the Heritage. It's a safe bet that Ruger wouldn't put their name on something embarrassing, but I do not know with absolute certainty that it will be better than the Heritage... but for half again the price I suppose it ought to be.

For the money a Heritage is fine, and a lot of people like them quite a bit. I might have one myself if I hadn't come across a steal of a deal on a Frontier Scout.

 

[Speedo66]

Did you not go to the Ruger website and read or watch the video? The frame is aluminum.

One of the articles is saying the grip frame is a zinc casting, i.e., pot metal.

 

[Old Stumpy]

The issue with fixed sights is because they're difficult to acquire the right picture, people will have a more difficult time getting repeatable shots. Not to mention those with less than great eyesight will struggle more with the fixed sights vs adjustable ones.

Look, you can bash the Heritage's appearance all you want and make the leaf springs out to be trash that will break the minute the hammer is first cocked, but the safety does nothing to affect shootability or performance and the Loctited barrel has held up for many people over years of use.

At this point, you're just grasping at straws and appear to hate the Heritage whilst being a fanboy for Ruger when they've had QC issues that should put them to shame for the prices of their guns. When Heritage or Taurus have a QC issue, it's proof positive they are hucksters slapping garbage together to steal people's money.

If after a year people have had zero issues with the Wrangler, I'll give it its due, but I'm not gonna sing praises on a gun that has yet to even appear on store shelves yet. In 2019, just because it has Ruger's name on it doesn't mean it's a beacon of craftsmanship and quality. Then, if after people have overwhelming praise for the Wrangler and Ruger offers them in adjustable sight models, you can bet I'll be buying one so long as it holds more than 6 rounds.

As with our previous discussions over the Rough Rider, this one seems headed into a silly personal vendetta. I'm not going there.
The simple reality is that the Wrangler is the better gun. Anyone can see that.
But, if you wish to stubbornly cling to your position, that is your privilege.
Everybody else will examine the two guns and see the difference and buy the Wrangler.

 

[CraigC]

If the Ruger is not measurably better than the Heritage, I'll kindly eat my hat.

 

[GunnyUSMC]

One of the articles is saying the grip frame is a zinc casting, i.e., pot metal.

I thought we were talking about the frame? I didn’t see anything at Ruger that said what the grip frame was made of, but that article stated it was zinc alloy.

 

[troy fairweather]

I thought we were talking about the frame? I didn’t see anything at Ruger that said what the grip frame was made of, but that article stated it was zinc alloy.

think guys are just making things up, we will find out soon.

 

[TTv2]

As with our previous discussions over the Rough Rider, this one seems headed into a silly personal vendetta. I'm not going there.
The simple reality is that the Wrangler is the better gun. Anyone can see that.
But, if you wish to stubbornly cling to your position, that is your privilege.
Everybody else will examine the two guns and see the difference and buy the Wrangler.

Everybody else will buy the Ruger after they examine the two side by side? I find that hard to believe. Just because you have to have coil springs and non Loctited barrels doesn't mean everyone else wants that and thus wants to pay more for it. You're projecting your qualities of quality onto others believing that they all see the same thing you do.

Reality check: people are different.

The Heritage is not going away, just like how .40 is not dead. Losing market share doesn't mean impending doom, it just means losing market share.

I can't guarantee the Ruger will be better than the Heritage, I'd like to believe so given the price and brand name, but I won't hold my breath until others have put it through its paces. I hope after all's said and done, everyone can say the Ruger is vastly superior to the Heritage cuz I'll definitely trade up once that happens.

 

[BLB68]

The issue with fixed sights is because they're difficult to acquire the right picture, people will have a more difficult time getting repeatable shots. Not to mention those with less than great eyesight will struggle more with the fixed sights vs adjustable ones.

Are you saying that the rear groove/trough + front sight post is harder to make repeatable shots with vs. an adjustable rear sight's more defined notch? I can see that argument, though it hasn't been an issue for me. As far as the eyesight issue goes, it seems that either fixed or adjustable sights can be improved vastly by a replacement front sight that has a Tritium or fiber optic insert. (Which makes me wonder if these Wranglers will have front sights that can be easily upgraded?)

I was actually thinking of getting a Heritage strictly due to budget, since they tend to have mostly favorable reviews from a lot of sources. These new Rugers are looking very tempting.

 

[TTv2]

Are you saying that the rear groove/trough + front sight post is harder to make repeatable shots with vs. an adjustable rear sight's more defined notch? I can see that argument, though it hasn't been an issue for me. As far as the eyesight issue goes, it seems that either fixed or adjustable sights can be improved vastly by a replacement front sight that has a Tritium or fiber optic insert. (Which makes me wonder if these Wranglers will have front sights that can be easily upgraded?

More or less. I'm sure there are some out there who are a whiz with the traditional SAA sights, but for most people, they're a challenge to shoot well with. Even with those style sights, I can make them work, but I am a LOT better with more modern sights and I'm not talking strictly fiber optics, I'm saying anything that's not the blade and notch sights. As someone previously said, they work fine for the 3.5 inch and shorter barrels (which is what my .32 Heritage is and it groups great at 10 yards, but is off by 2 inches in windage and elevation) but anything over 4 inches really benefits from better sights.

 

[MidRoad]

My God, TTv2! You must have spent half the day posting in this topic. Well it was more like two hours.
I don’t think that Heritage will be going out of business, just going to get some good competition.
You are correct that some people will spend as little as possible on things they want. Even if there was just a $30 difference in the price of the two guns, some would op to save the $30.
You are also right that most shooters that haven’t bought a Heritage were not going to buy one anyway. I’m one of those shooters.
I’ve shot the Heritage guns and find that they shoot pretty good, but my Super Single Six Convertible shoots much better.
The Heritage Rough Rider is not a new design. It’s one that has changed hands a few times. The design came out of West Germany after WWII when everyone was watching Westerns. One of the Companies was B. Schmidt Ostheim / Rhoen. I have one of their Model 21s. Picked it up at a pawn shop for $80.
I like the older ones better then the Rough Rider because, the finish was much better and it doesn’t have that butt ugly safety.
This little gun is a hoot to shoot.
View attachment 837407

You might not know it but video games can be a big seller for guns. Not long ago the game Battlefield 1 hit the market. It was based on WWI. Not long after it came out the demand for weapons from WWI started going up in price.
Right now one of the hottest video games is Red Dead Redemption II. It a western game set in 1886 ant you’re an outlaw. Kids and young adults are spending hours didn’t around doing outlaw stuff and getting into gun fights.
View attachment 837410

The demand for single action revolves is going to go up and the Ruger Wrangler will be hitting the market at the perfect time. Most of this market will be lookin for guns that look like the ones in the game. The one they call the Cattleman is a SAA. I think that Ruger and Heritage will both do good.
View attachment 837412

"Shore!" Ruger can take my "muneh"!
"They have a plan!"



​

 

[Old Stumpy]

It seems quite silly to be arguing over the sights on a beer budget .22 plinker with a price less than $200.00.
Nobody is going to be entering National bullseye competitions with either gun.
And while TTv2 is trying his darndest to convince you that without even crappy adjustable sights that you are going to be spraying lead across six counties, this is utter nonsense.
Ruger sells a ton of Bearcats and Vaqueros with the same sights. I own a Bearcat and have owned two New Vaqueros.
They both shoot just about as accurate groups as with adjustable sights. And mine have shot very close to the point of aim.
If they didn't CAS shooters wouldn't be buying the Vaqueros at all, would they?
It's really all about how well-defined the sight blade and notch are.
With a Rough Rider though, shooting to or near POA with fixed sights is only a remarkable coincidence.

The sight thing is the only arguing point that TTv2 has left, so IMHO he is attempting to exaggerate and exploit it to the max.

 

[Jim Watson]

I thought we were talking about the frame? I didn’t see anything at Ruger that said what the grip frame was made of, but that article stated it was zinc alloy.

Ruger says the "cylinder frame" is "Aluminum Alloy." They could have made the grip frame out of about anything. There are .44 magnums with steel receiver and aluminum grip frame.

I bet there is somebody out there with the first one on his block and a case of ammo cranking out shots as fast as he can get them in and out of the gate. We will soon see a youtube on the subject.

 

[Old Stumpy]

Ruger says the "cylinder frame" is "Aluminum Alloy." They could have made the grip frame out of about anything. There are .44 magnums with steel receiver and aluminum grip frame.

Plenty of people have been shooting .44 magnum class loads out of their aluminum grip frame .45 Colt Ruger Blackhawks for many years.
So, a .22 long rifle grip frame could be made out of aluminum, polymer, or zinc-aluminum alloy.
Many .22 rifles made over the past 60 years have included non-stress parts made of all of these materials.
The 1950s Remington Nylon .22 rifle was entirely made out of Zytel, apart from the barrel, bolt, internal parts and a sheet metal action cover.

It should also be noted that there is a big difference between the various Zinc-Aluminum alloys.
Zamac or pot metal refers to the cheapest, weakest, and most brittle alloys.
However ZA-12 is one of the strongest, and is used by tool makers like Lee Valley to produce vises and lever caps on some of their premium
woodworking planes. It's tensile strength rivals cast iron.
If Ruger is using a Zinc-Aluminum alloy for the Wrangler grip frame, it's probably one of the better ones.