Zanad
Member
what do you know, I know I cant carry a police officer in my pocket but now I have a choice of either having a judge and/or a governor in my pocket to be used at will.
New S&W .410 Revolver
- Thread starter InkEd
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epijunkie67
Member
If you are carrying it loaded with 45LC then it isn't going to do anything that a .357, .44, or real .45 LC can't do. The ONLY reason to carry a handgun that fires shotgun shells is so you can fire shotgun shells out of a pistol sized weapon. If you are going to use pistol rounds you'd be better served just carrying a pistol.
FIVETWOSEVEN
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Kel-Tec hasn't started making revolvers yet so I'm unsure about Ruger.
Carl N. Brown
Member
The Taurus Judge is beginning to look better. The S&W looks like its ugly lil sister. It's ugly aunt was the Thunder Five, a five-shot, .410 revolver that used to be made locally in Piney Flats, Tennessee, and sold by Top Notch Guns near Blountville. (The Thunder Five was featured in the movie "Three Kings")
This is a niche idea, a small niche well filled by the Taurus Judge. I just don't see a wide market for this type of revolver. Flood the market and you will kill it.
Me, I handload shot shells in .38 Spl or .45 AutoRim to cover my worries about snakes.
This is a niche idea, a small niche well filled by the Taurus Judge. I just don't see a wide market for this type of revolver. Flood the market and you will kill it.
Me, I handload shot shells in .38 Spl or .45 AutoRim to cover my worries about snakes.
Gottahaveone
Member
Naw, to qualify for that you would have to add---
WAY overpriced
once you buy it, you can't EVER get rid of it
and
no matter what action *you* might want it to take, it ALWAY's knows whats best for you and act's accordingly
JR47
Member
I'm thinking that the .410 shell (3"), holding 3/4 oz. of #4, 6, or 7 1/2 shot is going to be a LOT more effective than a shot-shell in .357, .44, or .45, that carries less weight of charge in #12 shot. Despite the authorities thinking, physics still holds the rule of law for this.
Most people who buy this gun, or a Judge, are going to shoot a box of each caliber through it, then put it away like the Model 10s of past generations. It will sit there, quietly, for the next 40-50 years, and be sold at an estate auction.
I believe that the current vogue of light-weight .357 Magnums are at least as stupid as anything in .410 in a pistol. Why? Because the "average" shooter cannot control them. They won't practice with them enough to be competent, and may well leave the shooting fraternity as a result of these over-powered, under thought out, beasts. Their sight radius is too short for a beginner, too.
Most people who buy this gun, or a Judge, are going to shoot a box of each caliber through it, then put it away like the Model 10s of past generations. It will sit there, quietly, for the next 40-50 years, and be sold at an estate auction.
I believe that the current vogue of light-weight .357 Magnums are at least as stupid as anything in .410 in a pistol. Why? Because the "average" shooter cannot control them. They won't practice with them enough to be competent, and may well leave the shooting fraternity as a result of these over-powered, under thought out, beasts. Their sight radius is too short for a beginner, too.
I'm glad to see most of you agree with my thoughts on this gimmick. From everything I read on these guns, thet suck. The shotgun is very inaccurate, because of the small barrel, and it's just too big for a regular revolver. It was a PR gimmick, taking advantage of the HD audience, convincing them that this was the ideal weapon, and it's not.I rather have a gun "or most other things" that does 1 thing and does it well. Than an all purpose thingamajig. Overpriced piece of junk.
John Wayne
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You know, for as much as people hate on the Taurus Judge and call it useless (a claim that for some applications has merit), they seem to be selling well and expanding years after everyone said they would fall by the wayside.
Yes, the S&W is an obvious copy of that design, but it also brings the ability to fire .45 ACP to the table, which may be a deal breaker for some.
Yes, the S&W is an obvious copy of that design, but it also brings the ability to fire .45 ACP to the table, which may be a deal breaker for some.
JR47
Member
Here's the largest problem on the Internet:
Try finding one and shooting it, or at the least handle it before forming an "opinion".
I took the time to handle and shoot one when they first came out. While I don't have a use for one, they (I shot 4, including a then new 3" .410 shell version) were actually accurate with the .410 loading at ranges up to about 15 feet. For snakes and rodents, etc., you won't need that much range. The .45 LC was also accurate out to 25 yards on a Torso silhouette.
The guns will require that you choose your .410 ammo with an eye towards the patterning, just like a shotgun. They are also finicky about .45 LC loadings, and will require a little research there, as well.
Again, for those who think that 3/4 oz. of #4 shot is somehow inferior to a standard revolvers 1/4 oz. of #12 shot, I have a bridge to sell you.
The thread was about S&W and Taurus, not Kimber.
Try finding one and shooting it, or at the least handle it before forming an "opinion".
I took the time to handle and shoot one when they first came out. While I don't have a use for one, they (I shot 4, including a then new 3" .410 shell version) were actually accurate with the .410 loading at ranges up to about 15 feet. For snakes and rodents, etc., you won't need that much range. The .45 LC was also accurate out to 25 yards on a Torso silhouette.
The guns will require that you choose your .410 ammo with an eye towards the patterning, just like a shotgun. They are also finicky about .45 LC loadings, and will require a little research there, as well.
Again, for those who think that 3/4 oz. of #4 shot is somehow inferior to a standard revolvers 1/4 oz. of #12 shot, I have a bridge to sell you.
The thread was about S&W and Taurus, not Kimber.
if they had called it "The Arnold" and got some aging bodybuilder to pose for advertising ......
It´s just marketing. And it looks like they failed.
People with too much money will have it in their collection
just for being complete.
Except for lookin ugly it seems to be able to do nuthin
any proven big revolvers couldn´t do.
It´s just marketing. And it looks like they failed.
People with too much money will have it in their collection
just for being complete.
Except for lookin ugly it seems to be able to do nuthin
any proven big revolvers couldn´t do.
ObsidianOne
Member
I personally think it's quite a bit LESS ugly than the Taurus Judge. I still fail to see the need for a .410/45LC pistol other than pure novelty, but I would be much more inclined to pick this one up, other than the Judge.
razorback2003
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- Aug 24, 2008
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- 1,231
Good Snake Gun
I've always thought those Judges would make a good snake gun for hikers and hunters. Shotshells in handgun cartridges don't have quite as much shot as 410 birdshot. Snakes take several hits with regular handgun ammo and are best hit in the head if you can get a head shot. Birdshot gives you more pellets for the snake to help break/tear up the snake. It is hard to carry a shotgun when you are just walking in the woods. If I wanted just a hiking handgun, I'd get something like this S&W or judge and load it with a couple or three birdshot shells for snake and 45 LC/45 ACP shells.
I've always thought those Judges would make a good snake gun for hikers and hunters. Shotshells in handgun cartridges don't have quite as much shot as 410 birdshot. Snakes take several hits with regular handgun ammo and are best hit in the head if you can get a head shot. Birdshot gives you more pellets for the snake to help break/tear up the snake. It is hard to carry a shotgun when you are just walking in the woods. If I wanted just a hiking handgun, I'd get something like this S&W or judge and load it with a couple or three birdshot shells for snake and 45 LC/45 ACP shells.
Guns and more
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Let the market decide.
I remember reading that the .380 was worthless for a carry gun, now everyone is making them.
Governors can trump judges.
Less ugly that the LCR, and I guess they are selling well.
I don't know if overbuilt is a bad thing, as opposed to under built.
USAF_Vet
Member
Sad to see S&W has stooped to this level, but not really surprising given the "mad rush to grab as many guns as possible before they are all illegal."
This one shoots .45 ACP, which gives it an added ability over the Judge, but from what I read, it needs moonclips on the rounds. Great, more stuff to buy for an already gimmicky gun. What advantages does a .45 ACP have over a .45 LC in this gun? At this point, I don't see the value of it.
Around here, Judges are selling like hotcakes, partly due to the moderate price range. What is the S&W retail price?
While I would consider a judge in the distant future, maybe, if the price was right and the stars aligned properly, the S&W Governor looks awful. I've held a Judge, although haven't had the opportunity to fire one, it didn't feel right in my hand. the S&W looks even worse in that regard.
This one shoots .45 ACP, which gives it an added ability over the Judge, but from what I read, it needs moonclips on the rounds. Great, more stuff to buy for an already gimmicky gun. What advantages does a .45 ACP have over a .45 LC in this gun? At this point, I don't see the value of it.
Around here, Judges are selling like hotcakes, partly due to the moderate price range. What is the S&W retail price?
While I would consider a judge in the distant future, maybe, if the price was right and the stars aligned properly, the S&W Governor looks awful. I've held a Judge, although haven't had the opportunity to fire one, it didn't feel right in my hand. the S&W looks even worse in that regard.
Gryffydd
Member
The same ones it always has... ammo availability, ammo cost, more efficient with standard .45 Colt level loads. Given that this (I'm assuming) can't handle the .45 Colt "+P+" rounds, the real question is, what advantage does the .45 Colt have in this gun? The rim? There's always .45AR brass.
It's funny, most people here think this is a stupid gun. Most people here think the Judge is a pretty stupid gun. But man, does it ever sell! S&W would be stupid to not try to take a piece of that market. Sure, they could go back to making no-lock classic versions of their revolvers, and try to make it by only making guns "we" approve of. Yeah, that'd be a great business strategy.
Wow. Someone needs to print this thread off a hundred times at work ('cause you know you can for free) and send it to all the S&W office addresses you can find.
Seriously though, I really hope someone at Smith marketing reads this thread.
I hope they're rewarded with ZERO sales and a huge loss.
I hate imports and love AMURICAHN companies, but this is pathetic.
Seriously though, I really hope someone at Smith marketing reads this thread.
I hope they're rewarded with ZERO sales and a huge loss.
I hate imports and love AMURICAHN companies, but this is pathetic.
jerkface11
Member
Everyone on the internet hates these things. Odd that they seem to be flying off the shelves. Good for S&W for seeing that Taurus started a new niche.
It seems as if the Judge, made by Taurus has a market all its own and S&W is trying to "muzzle" in. If you hate this type of gun, don't buy it. Snooty folks who like the idea of the 45/410 pistol but can't stoop so low as to purchase a Taurus now have a viable option.
As a self-defense round, almost anything would be better than nothing. A .410 loaded with #4 shot would offer quite enough stopping power when used within its limitations. If you expect to successfully engage targets at long range handgun distance with .410 shotshell you will be disappointed. Used as a backup gun at close range....let's say inside of 15 yards....I think it would be more than adequate.
Bottom line, you need to balance your expectations when selecting a firearm for any purpose. Each type will excel in the application for which it was designed. Different calibers also have specific purposes and limitations.
As a self-defense round, almost anything would be better than nothing. A .410 loaded with #4 shot would offer quite enough stopping power when used within its limitations. If you expect to successfully engage targets at long range handgun distance with .410 shotshell you will be disappointed. Used as a backup gun at close range....let's say inside of 15 yards....I think it would be more than adequate.
Bottom line, you need to balance your expectations when selecting a firearm for any purpose. Each type will excel in the application for which it was designed. Different calibers also have specific purposes and limitations.
Gryffydd
Member
Yeah, I'm not so sure how big of a group that is...
But some have more limited purposes and many more limitations than others...
You know what I don't understand? Why there's no 9mm Shotgun/9x17/9x18/9x19 option out there. Smaller, shorter, lighter, better solid round ammo options. Sure, 9mm shotshells/defense ammo don't exist in the US, but it's big enough in Europe and if companies are building .410 (and 28 ga ) defensive ammo around these platforms, you think they'd look at this as well.
Taurus? S&W? If you're reading this I want credit!
) defensive ammo around these platforms, you think they'd look at this as well.Taurus? S&W? If you're reading this I want credit!
The advantages 45 Colt has over 45 ACP are:
Knowing that the gun can take 45 ACP pressures means you could load 45 Colt +P (not to Ruger or T/C levels though). But that isn't going to make a lot of difference.
- More powder capacity, so it is slightly more powerful, especially with heavier bullets.
- Longer case. The chambers in these guns are loooong. The longer the case, the higher the accuracy potential.
Knowing that the gun can take 45 ACP pressures means you could load 45 Colt +P (not to Ruger or T/C levels though). But that isn't going to make a lot of difference.
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