New to 9mm- need help

[The Ten-Ring Kid]

OK. i just started reloading for 9mm. I've got a tanfoglio witness match in 9mm and i did the workup load using Win 231 from 4.0gr to 4.9gr in .10gr incraments and i still can't seem to cycle the slide. Even at 4.9gr i got one cycle, but mostly stovepipes. :banghead:my books say that 4.9 is the max load for 115gr jacketed loads, but i'm using berry's plated rounds. I am loading at an OAL of 1.140. I guess my question is if i shorten my OAL, should the increase in pressure be enough to cycle the slide without loading above the max load in the book? any help or insight would really be helpful.

 

[evan price]

Hodgdon says 5.1 grains is max with 115 grain 9mm, and recommends a 1.09" OAL.

 

[Jefferson Herb]

9mm loads

I use 4gr 231 w 125 lead in my smith w/o fail.I use 7 gr hs6 w 115xtp for serious loads.

 

[Steve C]

Your OAL is a little long but your load data is correct according to the information found on the Hodgdon website below. They list a 1.100" oal with a 115gr LRN.

if i shorten my OAL, should the increase in pressure be enough to cycle the slide without loading above the max load in the book?

The slide of the pistol is operated by recoil which is prouced by velcoity and mass of the bullet. You can try shortening your OAL to what's listed at 1.100" and see if it gives you some more velocity to cycle the slide. Its worth a try. A load of 4.5grs should cycle the slide of most 9mm's. Your pistol may have a heavier than normal recoil spring and require ammunition of higher power (more velocity) to operate.

If shortening your OAL to what the data lists doesn't work you have 2 options.

One is to replace the stock spring with one that's a bit lighter. Lighter recoil calibration packs are available from Wolf at http://www,gunsprings.com.

The other is to change to a slower powder like Unique, Universal, AA#5 etc. that will give you a higher velocity with your 115gr bullets, probably in the 1,150 to 1,200 fps range.

 

[The Ten-Ring Kid]

Thanks for the comebacks, guys. i was thinking about shortening my OAL to about 1.150 and re-trying to work up the loads, so that info helps. it was just a little frustrating because i ran 200 factory rounds thru the pistol when i bought it and the pistol shot great. now that i'm trying my hand at reloading them i'm getting stuck. I've also got TiteGroup, HS-6 and Bullseye on hand to try, but I'm determined to get a good load worked up with 231 before I try to work a load with different powder

 

[Doug b]

You might try a mag primer with that ball powder.

 

[The Ten-Ring Kid]

That's not a bad idea. I do have some SP mag primers on hand...

 

[Doug b]

Ball powder needs a good spark.

 

[evan price]

Win 231 does not require a mag primer in 9mm.
Your problem is elsewhere.
The EAA Witness Match is sprung pretty stiff for European spec 9mm. I was going to buy one myself, nice pistols.

How can you 'shorten your OAL to 1.150"' when it is already at 1.140" in the first post?

Hodgdon says 1.09" (or 1.10" according to Steve C, but that is for lead.... 0.01" won't be a deal breaker probably) so I would shorten your OAL just in case the bullet nose is interfering with the case as it is being extracted/ejected and causing your stovepipes.

Compare the OAL of your factory ammo that you know works well to the OAL of your reloads.

 

[steve4102]

i was thinking about shortening my OAL to about 1.150 and re-trying to work up

How you gunna do that? 1.150 is "longer" that your 1.140 you are loading now.

 

[Walkalong]

Win 231 does not require a mag primer in 9mm.
Your problem is elsewhere.

Agreed. No powder suitable for 9MM needs a mag primer.


I am loading various 115 Gr RN bulets at 1.030 to 1.035 with excellent results in various 9MM guns.

 

[rfwobbly]

Win 231 does not require a mag primer in 9mm.
Your problem is elsewhere.

I agree also.

Is the gun also new? I have a CZ that had to be fired about 500 times before it loosened up enough to cycle reliably.

I suspect you have a lubrication issue. Either too much slide grease which is too viscous in the winter temps, OR no lubrication at all on a tight gun. Which ever it is, I highly suggest you remove the slide and thoroughly clean the rails. Then add 1 drop of synthetic motor oil on each rail, and reassemble. Then rack the slide a couple of times. You can then start back over with the lower loads again.

That won't cost you anything and will let you experiment without changing your ammo.

Hope this helps!

 

[The Ten-Ring Kid]

Oops. You're all right on my OAL. What I meant to say was I was going to shorten to 1.050 and re-work the load-up. And yes, rfwobbly, the gun is brand new and the only rounds that have been through it were the 200 at the range the day I picked it up. I also gave it a good cleaning when I got home. So I think I'm gonna take it down and make sure the slide is nice and smooth before I chase ammo problems.

 

[RainDodger]

No need for anything other than a small pistol primer. I've been loading 4.7 grains of 231, with a 115gr JRN or JHP, for 20+ years. There's nothing wrong with the load. For the RN, my COL is 1.1".

 

[1SOW]

Win 124gr FMJ, Fed SPP, Wi n range brass, 4.3g 231, 1.111 -)coal, gave me 1065 fps and cycled my CZ 75B reliably.

My 75B recoil spring is reduced from 14# stock to 11/12#. It needs to be clean and well lubed (Like rfwobbly said) and it will cycle reliably with light loads.

Your 115gr fmj should run reliably with less than 4.3g. under a 115gr jacketed bullet at a shorter coal OR up to 1.12/1.13 with 4.3gr. I load lighter and increase the load as needed.

This data is what worked for ME in MY gun-CZ75B, 4.72"bbl. Follow your reloading data starting low and moving up.

Good luck and stay safe.

 

[The Ten-Ring Kid]

Thanks for all the helpful tips guys. I finally figured out the load my gun likes. I ended up shortening the OAL to 1.101 and worked up from the min to max data and found that with the Berry's 115gr RN over 4.9gr of Win 231 the pistol cycles reliably and gives me good accuracy (as good as it can shoot with me behind the trigger) Now i get to find the right loadup using 124gr rounds. And then trying different powders.................

 

[rfwobbly]

For 124gr Berry, like 1SOW, I like 4.3gr Win231.

With your tight gun it may take slightly more.

 

[1SOW]

I ended up shortening the OAL to 1.101 and worked up from the min to max data and found that with the Berry's 115gr RN over 4.9gr of Win 231 the pistol cycles reliably and gives me good accuracy

In my gun that 4.9grs of 231 would be a 'hot' load with a plated bullet.

If I remember correctly, Berry's says 'Do not exceed max 1200fps' for their plated bullets.

 

[blikseme300]

The hotter load is most likely masking a friction problem. Your pistol may be wearing out quicker than you want.

On 2 different occasions this past year I cured cycling problems by applying some Hoppes slide grease in new pistols.

Pistol no1 is a new Stoeger Cougar 9mm. It had been cleaned and lightly lubed with Remoil. It FTF and smoke stacked after about every 2nd round. WWB ammo used. Tried the 2nd mag, no change. Tried the mags from my Cougar, no change. Tore down, cleaned and lightly lubed with rail grease on the rails and the contact areas between the rotating barrel and slide. Voila!

During the next range visit we used cast reloads. 124grn over 4.0grn HP-38 and CCI 500 primers. Cycled perfectly

Pistol no2 is a new CZ75B. Same problems as the Cougar. A good clean and lube using rail grease made things just work.

Just my 2c.

Bliksem

 

[Walkalong]

4.3 Grs W-231 and a Berrys 124 Gr plated bullet won't break (pun intended) 1200 FPS. It's not going to wear out any guns either.

 

[Blind Bat]

I also agree. Even with stiff springs 4.9gr of W231 should be tossing the brass pretty well.

If this is a used gun I recommend taking the extractor out and cleaning underneath it. You might want to replace it and the extractor spring while you are in there. 90% of the stove pipes I've had on my CZ and Tanfaglio have been caused by crud under the extractor. Don't just spray brake cleaner in there and loosen it up. It will make matters worse. From what I remember I put the slide on top of a loading block and drove the extractor pin down into a hole in the block. There is a spring behind the extractor but I've never seen one go flying. My CZ likes stock extractor springs but my TZ seems to prefer the Wolf +5% jobbies.

P.S. You might also have a resizing problem with glocked brass. Get a hold of a case gage. I'd used to get FTE problems on my XD until I started gaging all my brass.