New to reloading rifle

[Robes0Rama]

So I purchased a Remington 700 in a .223, I plan to change it out for a 6mm br once I get the money, but I wanted to get into reloading. I have reloaded handgun loads but never rifle. I was given a RCBS FL sizing kit. However I'm not sure if I should use that or NK sizing? If FL sizing, how would I determine the size that works for the chamber of my rifle? I already have been informed on what type of powder to use, use small rifle primers, and about a 52gr bullet. I'm just lost and looking for guidance on how to go about sizing for the best accuracy and performance. Thank you in advance.

 

[stoky]

Odds are you'll be able to neck size only, just bumping the shoulder back a bit.
Don't just neck size if you plan on firing them in a semi auto.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

You can neck size your brass but only if it was already shot in your rifle. After several firings you will still need to bump the shoulder back a bit. I am not sure you will see much benefit from neck sizing when shooting a hunting rifle. I personally wouldn't bother. Inadequate very good results in my Howa 1500 in .223 with a quality 55gr bullet out to 250 Yards.

 

[Robes0Rama]

Odds are you'll be able to neck size only, just bumping the shoulder back a bit.
Don't just neck size if you plan on firing them in a semi auto.

I only plan to use them in my bolt action.

You can neck size your brass but only if it was already shot in your rifle. After several firings you will still need to bump the shoulder back a bit. I am not sure you will see much benefit from neck sizing when shooting a hunting rifle. I personally wouldn't bother. Inadequate very good results in my Howa 1500 in .223 with a quality 55gr bullet out to 250 Yards.

I have some brass that has been fired from my rifle but I also have some that was given to me, once fired from an AR, that I'll need to do a full size. What is the best way to do that to determine what works best in my rifle?

 

[ArchAngelCD]

I only plan to use them in my bolt action.


I have some brass that has been fired from my rifle but I also have some that was given to me, once fired from an AR, that I'll need to do a full size. What is the best way to do that to determine what works best in my rifle?

Adjust your dies according to the manufacturers recommendations or if you have a case gauge use it for proper fit. Then test the sized empty brass in your rifle chamber. You just want to bump shoulder back into factory specs. The bolt should close with no resistance but of course not loose. It sounds more complicated than it really is.

https://www.midwayusa.com/product/456614/le-wilson-case-length-headspace-gauge-223-remington

 

[stoky]

I only plan to use them in my bolt action.
I have some brass that has been fired from my rifle but I also have some that was given to me, once fired from an AR, that I'll need to do a full size. What is the best way to do that to determine what works best in my rifle?

I'd FL size it the first time, then try neck sizing after it's first firing in your 700.

 

[Robes0Rama]

Thank you all. This is very helpful. I just want to make sure, before I do anything, that I'm doing or at least taking the right approach so I dont go and ruin my rifle or worse in the process. Trying to gather every bit of information I can.

 

[Reloadron]

I would just FL resize the brass, even if you neck size only sooner or later the brass will need a FL resizing. I tried it and never saw any real gain so just went back to full length resizing. As to full length resizing dies it becomes a matter of what you want to spend, since the rifle will eventually get another barrel I would just run with everyday RCBS or similar and put the bucks into the 6mm BR dies. Just my opinion.

I built my 6PPC around a Remington 700 action originally chambered in the .223 Remington. You will need to open the bolt face so get a good competent smith and I suggest using a Sako Extractor on the .223 Remington bolt, a Google of "sako extractor remington 700" will show you what I mean. Make sure you have a good smith.

Ron

 

[Cemetery21]

Hornady makes a cartridge headspace gage kit that is useful for setting up sizing dies to size the shoulder spacing for a particular rifle. For years before I had one, I would use trial and error for a particular chamber. Try an unsized, fired case in your chamber. You are looking for a case that has the shoulder pushed out too far for the bolt to close, or close with resistance. Maybe some of the unsized brass fired in the AR will be too tight to close the bolt easily. If you find a too tight case, size that one with the sizing die backed off from shellholder contact one turn. Then, try to chamber the sized case. Likely, it still will not chamber without resistance. Resize with the die turned down 1/4 turn more and try again. When you are getting close to chambering with little or no resistance, reduce the amount you turn the die down. You are looking for that point where the bolt just closes with little or no resistance. Lock the die down at that point. That should size your brass just to the point of fitting your chamber without pushing the shoulder back more than necessary. The theory here is that the brass closely fits the headspace for THAT chamber. Brass that is excessively sized will stretch the case body on firing and can eventually lead to case separation at the point where it stretches.
If you decide to use this method, be aware of the risks. Different brass may size differently, so try several cases before deciding that you have the die right for that rifle. If you hunt (rather than just shooting paper), you might want to turn the die down a little more to avoid having a hard chambering round. And, if you load for more than one rifle, you will have to size for the tightest chamber if you don't sort brass per rifle.
Sizing per the die makers instructions or sizing to fit a case gage is fine and usually produces reliable ammo. Custom sizing for a bolt action chamber is an option and might increase brass life. It seems to for me and it plays to my "can I do a little something extra" gene. Now, I keep all brass separated by rifle and I only shoot paper and prairie dogs. Both will wait on me if I run into a tight bolt closure. YMMV.
Oh, and I don't think you need to worry about harming your rifle with your sizing die setup. Either the round will chamber or it won't.

 

[kingmt]

I neck size only for my bolt rifles. I found that I did shoot much tighter groups but more important to me is that it's easier & my brass is lasting what seems like forever. Until the last AR joined the family I never had a need to be anywhere near a max load & so far I haven't had a shoulder creep forward. Anything my ARs eat gets FL sized. I found even in my hunting rifles that closing closer to the lands also shrinks groups however after adding ARs to my collection this isn't as important as having ammo that will feed in ether. I no longer take the time to set just of the lands or keep brass for a certain rifle in 223. However I do it still for other rifles I've be lucky enough for those that the chambers are so close if I interchange the ammo by mistake it still preforms well. In my 243s I seat off the lands about .001" & the other the same ammo is .0015" shoulders are just as close if I put ammo from the longer chamber in the shorter one I feel it in the bolt just as it's locking up which ends up bumping that shoulder back just a hair.

I will have to say I use to really enjoy getting holes as close as I could to each other. Now tho I just like to make ammo that all my kids can use. However my one son's 223 eats any ammo that happens to not feed in one of the ARs.

 

[kingmt]

I also wanted to add I chamber all my ammo before taking it out of the house anymore. If I did relax on this practice I'd still at least do the hunting ammo.

 

[readyeddy]

Here are some of my observations while reloading rifle and 223 cartridges.

Some 223/5.56 cases have primer crimps that need to be removed. Use a reamer tool that you can load into a cordless drill. De-crimping by hand is too time consuming and eventually painful.

Same goes for trimming brass. Use a tool that can be attached to a cordless drill or some other trimmer that doesn't cause your hand to cramp.

If you full size, make sure you use enough lube. For some reason you hear a lot about stuck 223 cases. It happened to me and it's no fun.

If you neck size, make sure you can chamber the resized brass. This shouldn't be a problem if you're using the same gun that fired the brass, but you want to avoid getting a cartridge stuck in your chamber while hunting.

Inspect your brass for case head separation.

 

[kingmt]

Use a reamer tool that you can load into a cordless drill.

Careful not to take to much with this method.

If you full size, make sure you use enough lube. For some reason you hear a lot about stuck 223 cases. It happened to me and it's no fun.

For me it's three fold. I use terrible lube, my die sizes the neck down way to much, & that is a tiny rim to hold so your not grabbing much surface area.

 

[Blue68f100]

If your just starting out hand loading, I would start with FL sizing. Save the neck sizing for down the line. When FS sizing is set up and done correctly you will see no difference between FL and NS. Most all long range shooters these days are FL sizing. The key is to only move the shoulder back the bare minimum, 0.001"-0.002" max. If you do this you will get excellent brass life. The RCBS Precision Mic is a tool that can be used to measure your shoulder movement, Hornady has a tool too. The 223R is a fairly easy round to load for. Depending on what brass your using you may or may not need to deal with crimped primer pockets. Use the proper tools for the job, it makes it easier and you will less likely to mess the brass up. Avoid power tools while your learning, it's a good way to destroy brass quickly. For crimped primers I prefer using a swaging tool to remove the crimp. This just moves the brass back to where it was before it was crimped. Where using a cutter removes the brass, opening the pocket up. As you will find out, rifle brass requires a lot of prep vs straight wall pistol. I would not do any crimping (bullet). Neck tension whats holds the bullet, not crimp. Crimping does damage the bullets if not done right, hurting accuracy and is harder on the brass. At some point you will need to anneal to prevent from splint the necks. As already mentioned not all brass sizes the same, different spring back. So keep up with your brass firings, as it work hardens you will need to tweak your sizing die. If your want to do neck sizing you have a couple of good options available. The use of Body die with a Bushings gives you the best of both, ( Redding S die, RCBS has one too.) This will keep you from over working the necks. The other option is to have your sizing die reamed to work with your brass. Going this way requires all the brass to have the same wall thickness, so neck turning may be required. Again this is getting into advanced hand loading procedures.

There are stickies a the top of the thread to cover the basics.

Work up your loads. It's very satisfying to watch a group shrink as you fine tune your load.

If in dough ask, we were all their once. The only dumb question is the one you don't ask. Lucky for you there is this thing called www, and fine forums like the THR. When I started 4 decades ago, it was school of hard knoxx.

Be safe,

 

[Dudedog]

Side note: If you are used to loading pistol, remember that the rifle brass will need to be trimmed at some point in time.If you full length size.
Also when loading rifle you need to watch for incipient case separation because the brass you trim off is coming from somewhere and that somewhere is where the case will separate if over used.

 

[Bart B.]

Most competitive shooters learned decades ago that full length sizing fired cases is best for accuracy. Bench rest folks learned about 10 to 15 years ago to full length size for best accuracy. Once you understand how a case fits the chamber and aligns the bullet with the bore when fired, you'll agree. Proper full length sizing makes case necks the straightest on case shoulders.

I've always got better accuracy with new cases compared to any neck sizing method I tried.

 

[Bart B.]

Resize with the die turned down 1/4 turn more and try again. When you are getting close to chambering with little or no resistance, reduce the amount you turn the die down. You are looking for that point where the bolt just closes with little or no resistance.

1/4 turn changes the die about .018" which is way too much. Turn it such that its circumference moves 1/10 or 2/10 inch; that's .002" or .004" steps. That's 1/36th or 1/18th turn.

For best accuracy, the bolt must not close with any amount of resistance chambering the case. When the bolt closes with resistance, that twists the case head to different places around the chamber. With .001" to .002" of head clearance to the bolt face, the extractor pushes it to the same place for every shot. That makes the bullet at the other end point to the same place for every shot.

 

[Walkalong]

the bolt must not close with any amount of resistance chambering the case. When the bolt closes with resistance, that twists the case head to different places around the chamber.

Every word of this is very important, and can easily happen because of the mechanical leverage of the bolt. A bolt gun can easily close on a case with +.001 head clearance. Now it is jammed in there at whatever angle, but it won't be straight.

 

[otisrush]

So I purchased a Remington 700 in a .223, I plan to change it out for a 6mm br once I get the money, but I wanted to get into reloading. I have reloaded handgun loads but never rifle. I was given a RCBS FL sizing kit. However I'm not sure if I should use that or NK sizing? If FL sizing, how would I determine the size that works for the chamber of my rifle? I already have been informed on what type of powder to use, use small rifle primers, and about a 52gr bullet. I'm just lost and looking for guidance on how to go about sizing for the best accuracy and performance. Thank you in advance.

I JUST went through this decision about 4 weeks ago - when I bought dies for my first bolt action (Rem 700 in .243) that I would reload for. (I've been reloading .223 for my AR for a couple of years. So I wasn't new to rifle - but I was new to doing so for a bolt gun.) There is great info above - excellent info. I'm going to summarize my thought process - both as an explanation for you RoR as well as a check for others to read to see if I've got this right.....

At first I thought I would neck size, but I decided against that for two reasons. First, I'd heard that after a few reloads doing neck sizing only the brass does expand to the point where some level of shoulder bump is required. The bolt gets too difficult to close. So this means two sets of dies are needed - FL and Neck. I didn't want to mess with multiple die sets. Second, I heard what was stated above: That some people have seen that best accuracy is achieved with a little bit of a shoulder bump is done.

So given I made the FL decision - I wanted to bump the shoulder the minimum amount to be effective. I wanted this for two reasons. First - better accuracy. Second - I wanted to reduce brass stretching between loads - and prolong the life of the brass. (I figured I'd be buying hopefully reasonably good brass - which I have - Nosler. Maybe Lapua down the road.) So I bought Hornady's headspace gauge. (The case gauge linked to above, it is my understanding, checks dimensions against SAAMI specs. That will ensure your round will fit in the gun - but if the gun is chambered larger than SAAMI - then sizing to pass the case gauge test may be small relative to your gun so as to not provide optimum accuracy as well as over-work the brass.)

http://www.hornady.com/store/Lock-N-Load-Headspace-Kit-With-Body-1-Each/

I used the headspace gauge to measure the shoulder of a fired case that came out of my gun, then very very slowly - in very small increments - lowered my FL sizing die until I got a shoulder bump of .002"-.003". I would also check the case after each die movement by putting that case in the gun to see how easily (or not) the bolt closed. I locked down the die when the measurements and gun fit seemed right.

So.....*for me* (meaning it may be different for you) I've decided on FL sizing. I have yet to see (load development and practice is now required) to see if I can produce the results at the range and with holes in paper that I want.

Good luck.

OR

P.S.: Now that I've been through this process - I'm going to go back to my .223 setup and do the same process - although I've heard for semi-autos the shoulder bump needs to be in the .004'-.005" realm. I would like to have setups that work the brass to a minimal amount in all my rifle calibers.

 

[witchhunter]

It is important to adjust your die so that it sizes cases to fit your chamber. Take a fired case, size it only enough that it fits. Do not use the "all the way to the die and 1/4 turn" method. Size the case to fit your chamber. FL size and then trim, chamfer and load. You can make very accurate ammo with this method. Use all the same headstamp of brass. Your bullet depth is very important once you have a good charge worked up. Make small incremental changes in depth to find the most accurate load.

 

[Bart B.]

I don't think adjusting bullet jump distance to the rifling incremental in search of best accuracy is needed. The rifling erodes away increasing bullet jump about .001" for every few dozen rounds. Match ammo loaded to a given OAL to feed reliable from magazines shoots very accurate for the life of the barrel. Jump distance may grow about 1/10th inch over the life of 3000 to 4000 rounds.

Accuracy degradation will be indisquishable across them with a standard commercial barrel. But you can seat bullets .001" shallower every few dozen rounds if you wish.