New to the Black, 1858 replica, many questions!

[Tyril]

Greetings all,


I'm new to shooting this year, and have only owned a firearm (1942 Izzy 91/30) for one month now. Being 20, I have had little experience with pistols thus far.


My girlfriend and I went to a gunshow Sunday, and she saw a "pretty one", a 1858 Rem. Italian replica of questionable history. I examined the revolver, and saw suprisingly good rifling, some handling marks, and a price of $120. It seemed to lock up tight, with little play in either cylinder direction. I had been curious about blackpowder for a while, and read a few items. Long story short, I bought it, a pound of pyrodex P, 200 #11 CCI magnum caps, and a powder flask.


I took it home, and gave it a full disassembly today, wiping it all down, and removing some of the BP crud, revealing a much smoother action. I noticed however, that the cylinder is just a tiny bit off center on occation when the revolver is in full cock. Now, I understand that significant misalignment will cause ball to hit the forcing cone and cause all sorts of mayhem, but I don't think mine is really that bad. Looking up from the bottom of the revolver from the barrel end shows just a sliver more of the bottom cylinder hole on one side than the other. Also, every once in a while the cylinder will not rotate the full 60 degrees upon fully retracting the hammer. This only happens when I cock the hammer a certain way, and faster than usual. Is this normal? I plan on just starting out with small loads... around 15 gr of pyrodex.

Will 15 gr of pyrodex clear the ball through an 8" barrel? Max suggested load is 30 gr. What kind of velocity will each give, approximately (cal is .451 ball)

How about firing without a ball... can I use a bit of paper towel or some such substitute, sealed with Crisco?


I don't have any wads, and plan on using Crisco to seal the individual chambers off. Is Powder, Ball, Crisco the correct sequence? How much Crisco should be used? Enough just to seal around the ball, or enough to cover the ball?

In the event of an ignition failure, how long should I wait to eliminate the possibility of hang-fire?

I also wish to dry fire the revolver. I know it is not good to dry fire on the nipples, but what about dry firing with the cylinder removed?

There is a pretty intricately milled rear sight on the top of the reciever, however even at full cock, the hammer obscures all but the very top part of the rear sight. I find that a little odd.



I am also interested about its history. It was an Italian copy, made probably in the 70's so said the table owner.

Two proof marks on the barrel: A shield and a PN mark. Also "Black Powder Only Cal. 44 Made in Italy" And some kind of Double Triangles mark.
Three on the reciever: Shield, PN, and AE in a square. (year mark?)
Two on the cylinder: Shield and PN.

Anyone know when are where it was made?


About Loading. I plan on making a wooden stand to support it in a loading position before I shoot it. However, should loading (before capping) be done at half-cock? I need to know to so that I can cut the support piece to have room for the hammer.




That's all I can think of for now. Sorry about its length =)


Thanks everyone!


-mike

 

[Burt Blade]

Welcome to the Darkside!

Load 5 chambers only, never six. The hammer would rest on the cap if you lowered it on a loaded chamber. A blow to the hammer would fire the gun.


Powder, ball, lube, (on all 5 chambers), then cap.

Pyrodex will work. However, it is the most corrosive of the black powder substitutes. American Pioneer Powder and Triple Seven are non-sulfur compounds, thus less corrosive. Triple Seven tends to be the most energetic powder, then Pyrodex and real black powder, then American Pioneer. APP makes the lightest loads and the easiest cleanup.

You want FFFg (AKA three F) granulation of the powder. Or Pyrodex "P" (pistol).

_Never_ pour from the powder can to the gun. Always use a powder measure of some sort. That way a smoldering ember in a chamber only ignites 24 grains of powder, not a pound of it.

The ball should be a .454 for a Remington. .457 will also work. The ball must shave a small ring of lead when you seat it. Otherwise, it is too loose, and may allow a flash from one chamber to ignite the others. Accuracy would also be poor.

Any blackpowder firearm requires that the ball seat on the powder, with no air space between. This is essential, to avoid damaging your gun. The ram on a Remington has a limited throw. A 15 grain charge will likely leave a gap. You can safely use grits (a southern food) or cream of wheat as a filler, between the powder and the ball.

Try a 24 grain charge of powder and a .454 round ball. You could also use 18 grains and 0.7cc to 1cc of cream of wheat to make up the volume.

Once a ball is firmly seated in each chamber, seal the chambers with Crisco. This is mainly to reduce fouling of the bore, but also prevents flashovers.

My Remingtons use Remington #10 caps. CCI #11s will work if I pinch them so they are no longer round. Never force caps on the nipples. The results can be unexpectedly loud, and painful.

Do not dry fire any cap and ball revolver. Even if you take out the nipples, the hammer will bash on the frame.

Clean right away after shooting. Don’t wait until the next day. Take the grips off and at least remove the cylinder. Use hot soapy water to remove all the crud. Really! It is the best thing in the world for dissolving blackpowder/BP--substitute fouling. You can even run it under the hot water tap in the utility sink or bathtub. Dry it then oil it. A couple of oily patches to swab the bore. Ballistol brand oil is best.

On a warm to hot day, I clean the guns at the range, using a spray bottle of dish soap (just a bit) and water to flush it out. Then I use another spray bottle of 10 parts water to one part Ballistol (shake well before using) to again flush it out. I use paper towels to dry it off and swab out the bore and chambers. Then I let it sit in the sun and bake dry. The water evaporates, leaving the oil. Then I swab the bore and chambers with an oil soaked patch, and lightly oil al other surfaces. If you remove the wooden grips, you can safely bake the gun in the oven at 150 degrees to dry it.

 

[mec]

AE = 1979

 

[Starter52]

Everything Burt told you is good advice.

I never bother taking off the grips when I clean my BP revolvers. Also, you can use an over-the-powder wad (I like Wonder Wads) and eliminate the need for Crisco or other lubes.

Shooters all agree that you shouldn't pour from a flask into a BP rifle barrel. I personally don't use a powder measure for BP revolver. I fill the spout of my CVA flask, close off the main body, and pour. This may not be "by the book" but I've done it for 20+ years without a problem. A powder measure is best, of course.

Burt's right about cleaning - do it as soon as you get home. Don't wait until the next day. A swaged .454 ball (Hornady or CCI) is correct for your gun.
Always load from half-cock. Never cap until all loading is done. Wait 30 seconds if you get a misfire, then cap again after reseating the ball.

Your Remington has "battlefield" sights and was never intended for fine target shooting. It will likely shoot several inches high.

Welcome to the sport.

 

[mec]

good to look at the top of this page and read Gatofeo's sticky about proper use of percussion revolvers.

 

[Steve499]

About dry firing, I read on another forum that one could place a strip of leather which is thick enough to stop the hammer from falling on the nipple down in the hammer cut in the frame. The hammer is cushioned when it drops with no metal to metal contact at all. I tried it with my Remington and it works well.

Steve

 

[Tyril]

I actually got out to shoot my Remmy yesterday, and all I can say was it was a blast! =)


I shot 20-30 grains of pyrodex P under a .451 ball and a slob of Crisco.

Accuracy started out decent, with the ability to hit the paper at 25 yards. However, it fouled extremely quickly, and within four cylinders, it was no better than a smoothbore. Near the end of the day, I was often hitting the paper to the left of my target... two or three feet to the left.

When I finally cleaned it out, the first run of my .44 nylon brush pulled out a huge pile of fouling, obviously the cause of my accuracy problems.


It was fun.


-mike

 

[Low Key]

Your pistols endurance for good accuracy will improve as the bore "seasons" with the use of natural lubricants. Once you bore is properly seasoned, the fouling will not stick to the bore as well so there will be less build up and cleaning will be easier also.

I've found that for me, a dry wad on top of the powder, then a bit of lube over the wad, and then seat the ball on top of that helps keep the 58 running smooth and reduces fouling in the bore as well.