Newbie wanting some sage wisdom!

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Big_Sloppy75

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Hello everyone! I recently got bit buy the muzzleloader bug, and got a CVA wolf. I was curious especially on powder charges, and how much is safe for a 295 grain powerbelt in a .50 cal. I’m using 777 FFFP, and unfortunately I’m in Idaho, so musket caps to be NW compliant. What are some safe loads? How hard is it to seat the bullet safely? Any answer is welcome, and if I am overlooking anything please let me know!
 
The manual recommends 90-120 grains of loose FFg powder for best accuracy unless loading with pellets.
Since you're using FFFg 777 powder, that load can be reduced by 10-15% to be equivalent to FFg.

777 has a little more felt recoil than some other powders.
That's why it's good advice to begin with 75-80 grains of powder and work up in 5 grain increments until you're satisfied with the accuracy at the desired hunting distances.

The manual does say that up to 150 grains of pellets can be loaded, but that lower charges of loose powder should be used for best accuracy.

Be prepared to swab the bore every 1-5 shots depending on the amount of residue in the barrel.
The more powder loaded, the more fouling and the more felt recoil.
The more shots taken without swabbing, the harder it will be to ram the bullets and seat them on top of the powder.
Make sure that the bullet is always seated on the powder firmly and that any hard fouling does not interfere with seating the bullet directly on the powder.
Sight your gun in so that the 1st shot out of a cold, clean barrel will hit to your point of aim (or point of zero), since where the 2nd or 3rd shot hits is not as important as the 1st.

Get to know the trajectory of your bullets at different distances to see where they will hit at 50, 75, 100 yards and beyond, to compensate for bullet drop or sighting errors.
Sighting in 1-2 inches high at 50 can reduce the amount of bullet drop at 100 or beyond.

Don't over-compress the 777 when ramming the bullet as that can cause erratic performance.
Ram the bullet firmly on top of the powder, and try to ram it with the same consistent pressure every time for best results.

Read the manual and good luck with your new Wolf:--->>> https://cva.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/04/Universal-Manualrev11.20.15.pdf
 
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Good advice so far, that helps a ton. I “read” the manual, but I guess should spend more time on it. It seemed very generic so I gave up, but it sounds like I should take another crack at it.
 
Arcticap is pretty much spot on. You didn't say what kind of ramrod you're using. If you think you're getting close to a load you may like, mark the ramrod in some way so you know when you're down on the powder. It'll come in handy if the bore gets fouled a little more and it's hard to ram the bullet down. Something simple as " how many fingers still go around it when down."
 
Arcticap and Paul are right on the money, work up an accuracy load with loose powder. My only change is start with caliber size plus 10 grains. I am assuming this is an inline so what is the barrel length? Also 777 leaves a gnarly white residue that accumulates near the muzzle and can make it a real bear to push a bullet through. I don't fool with inlines but have had the residue problems on pistol and rifle both.
 
It’s a 24 inch barrel, and the ramrod is the stock palm saver that came with the rifle. It is an in-line also. Is there a good way to feel when my bullet is seated properly? Also are there any recommendations on how to get rid of the nasty residue that forms at the muzzle? Sorry last question, but I don’t quite understand the finger rule Paul
 
I think he's referring to using your fingers as a guide when determining whether your bullets are seated all of the way down on top of the powder.
Make a mental note of how many finger widths that the ramrod is exposed after fully seating the bullet on a full powder charge, like the number of fingers than can wrap around the ramrod.

I don't want to open a can of worms, but there's many different kinds of Powerbelt bullets.
Some involve controversy regarding whether they will fully pass through deer or not.
It appears that because they expand a lot and can also fragment that they don't pass through or produce great blood trails on a large percentage of deer that have been shot with them.
But not all Powerbelts are of the same composition and design.
Some are almost pure lead and others are not.
The 295 grain Powerbelts can certainly kill them dead, but may not produce much of a blood trail before they expire.
This is just about years of Powerbelt forum discussions and user reviews that are easy to Google.
 
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Well that’s not all bad to hear. I live in Idaho mostly, but hunt in Colorado also. The powerbelts are not legal in Idaho as I understand the law. I only have them because CVA has a killer starter kit that happened to have those 295 power belts in it.
 
I shoot just BP, RBs, and hammer guns, not inlines, so I don't know what a palm saver is. When I first started it was with a TC percussion lock and their Maxi-balls. The brother inlaw and I went to RBs and on the third shot couldn't get it down the barrel. We had wood ram rods and I beat mine down by slamming the end against a tree. We learned to wipe between shots. The same cleaning patch is used over and over. You can dampen it with spit. You measure how much ram rod is sticking out the barrel [ is it a hand width /plus fingers ] when loading the first shot with a clean barrel. That's why a mark on the rod is nice once a load is settled on - you always know if the bullet is seated. With wood rods a scratch can be put on it around the rod even with the top of the barrel. And beating that wooden rod down the barrel - it was done very carefully with our hands in the middle of the rod so it wouldn't bend and break. If using a wood rod, always use short strokes with your hands close to the barrel. I've never used anything except wooden rods. Other materials can act like a abrasive and ream the muzzle giving poor accuracy.
 
That’s awesome. I think there is a much deeper appreciation for a firearm and the art doing it the way you do. The palm saver rod is a metal rod with a rubber pad to help make loading easier on your hand I suppose. It seems cleaning an in-line, especially the swabbing, is very easy so I’ll get into the habit early.
 
As to the residue left behind by 777, I use Pinesol as a patch lube. It takes it off with each loading. All it takes is a couple of drops on a patch. I know you are using power belts so not sure how you would work this in. I shoot mostly round ball so it's part of my routine to put a couple of drops on my patch before placing the ball on it. As to ramming the ball or bullet , it should be a series of pushes without beating on the rod. When it reaches the powder try to seat it with the same pressure each time. After you find your best load mark the ramrod so you have a visual indicator that the bullet is where it needs to be.
 
paul harm said:
I shoot just BP, RBs, and hammer guns, not inlines, so I don't know what a palm saver is. .
Click to expand...

There's all kinds of ramrod handles for round ball guns.
Some simply slip on top of a ramrod with an over sized hole, while others are threaded.
They're made of wood, plastic, metal, you name it.
They have flat tops, rounded dome tops, ball tops, T -tops.
I even have one in the shape of a split piece of rubber that resembles an arrow remover, that slips around the ramrod.
Any ramrod handle attachment is designed to help save one's palm.
It's sad to see people struggle with seating any kind of projectile using their palm and a flimsy rod.
I see it on youtube videos all of the time.
That's why I use a mallet and tap, tap tap every kind of projectile into the bore with a short starter and then another longer starter or pistol ramrod if needed.
I got sick and tired of hurting the palm and flesh of my hand early on in this shooting sport.
And some guns like BP shotguns come with wire thin steel ramrods which are the worst kind.
I have many ramrods that I've never used.
Even when hunting, I've carried a short stout wooden dowel ramrod with a plastic handle placed in a nylon arrow quiver on a belt and at my hip,
I tie the quiver to my thigh if I need to, and position the rod with an angle toward the rear.
Once started down the bore far enough, balls and some projectiles can be rammed home with nearly a single whoosh.
It's better to have a stout rod with a handle than an impaled palm caused by a cheap broken ramrod, or broken blood vessels from banging on the end of a ramrod.
Everyone should know about saving palms.


 
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I have made my own short starters by cutting a piece off a too long delrin rod from TOW, then drill a hole the same diameter as the rod in a golf ball and epoxy it in place.
 
You can go to CVA website and buy starters,ramrods... just about anything.
A bunch cheaper than fleabay or wallyworld.
The Wolf is an under rated muzzleloader. Dang good accuracy,and 1" groups at 100 yards is common.
Best advice I can give you,or anyone new to muzzleloaders is....keep your weapon clean,and keep it simple.
Every gun,even the same make and model,is different. Yours may shoot 70 grains pyrex and a power belt well...and the next off the assembly line may prefer 90 grains and a barnes bullet.
Experiment till you find that load your gun likes.
But keep it clean and simple.
 
arcticap said:
The manual recommends 90-120 grains of loose FFg powder for best accuracy unless loading with pellets.
Since you're using FFFg 777 powder, that load can be reduced by 10-15% to be equivalent to FFg.

777 has a little more felt recoil than some other powders.
That's why it's good advice to begin with 75-80 grains of powder and work up in 5 grain increments until you're satisfied with the accuracy at the desired hunting distances.

The manual does say that up to 150 grains of pellets can be loaded, but that lower charges of loose powder should be used for best accuracy.
Click to expand...

PLEASE heed this good advice. :thumbup:

I don't think anybody would tell you that a rifle shooting a .45-70 Government cartridge, loaded with a lead alloy bullet weighing 405 grains, using 70 grains of BP as the main load, would have trouble dropping a deer at 150 yards, and would be even better at 100 yards or less. Right? ;)

So CVA offers .50 caliber PowerBelts in 223gr 245gr 295gr 348gr and..., 405gr weights. So you should be able to launch a projectile every bit as effective as the old .45-70 Gov ...using 75 grains of your substitute powder, or a little bit higher. In fact if you want to go out to 150 yards, I'd probably say that instead of upping your powder, you simply improve your trajectory by reducing the bullet weight from 405 to 295. Providing you get good accuracy out of any of the offered weights, the deer won't know the difference between a through and through hit from a 405 vs. a 295.

LD
 
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