Night match coming up, guess at lowest flash of these powders

Status
Not open for further replies.

Dudedog

Contributing Member
Joined
Oct 19, 2013
Messages
6,952
Location
Southern CA
I have a night match coming up this weekend (This will be the frist one for me)and was wondering if anyone had had a chance to test any of these powders at night.
Load would be 9mm with 124 @ around 1030ish
(edit: no issues getting the vel I need for minor PF with any of these)
I have done testing in the daytime but I don't really have anyplace I can test in the dark.
(range normally closes before dark) So I haven't really had a chance to shoot in the dark before.
I have definite favorites for match loads in the daytime (4.4-4.5 WSF with a RMR 124 MPR)
but being at night if I give up a little accuracy wise no big deal.

Powders I have that will work,
AA#2
Sport Pistol
HP38
W244
Universal
(a dab of BE86 maybe enough to get the needed 120 rounds out of maybe not)
WSF
CFE-P
Silhouette

My gut wants to tell me the faster powders will probably have less flash, but then my gut told me to put on some more hot salsa the other night and I shouldn't have listened to it:D
 
Last edited:
Be-86 is supposed to be power pistol with flash suppression. That might be a good choice.

I have siloette and that would he my choice, but I have not used about half of your list.

I would not choose hp-38 it's worse than unique and siloette. My observations are during the day so I would love to see a ranking chart if you test.
 
I believe W244 has flash suppressant as well. I would not pick HP-38 (W231.) The rest of them I have no experience with.
 
I don’t know whether aa2 has flash suppressant, but I’ve done a lot of indoor shooting with it and have found it to have little discernible flash.
 
PP would need a lot of flash suppressant to be low flash;)
BE86 is a flash suppressed powder but I seem to recall that it still has more flash than some others.

Random thought, more nitro=more flash???
Burned up all N330 the other day so I don't have any single base pistol powder on hand.:(

ATLDave, will put AA#2 on this list of possibles.
 
I have a night match coming up this weekend (This will be the frist one for me)and was wondering if anyone had had a chance to test any of these powders at night.
Many post Tactical Journal compared 14 powders and AA #2 had the lowest muzzle flash.

From your choice of powders, based on what I have read and tested, I think least amount of muzzle flash to most would be AA#2, Sport Pistol, HP-38, Universal, Silhouette, CFE Pistol, WSF (and I have not tested W244 yet for muzzle flash size) - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?threads/low-or-no-flash-powders.707519/#post-8799173

"I belonged to an outdoor range that allowed 24/7 access and we did some low light (almost no light) comparison tests with reloads and we found several faster burning than W231/HP-38/Universal powders did not produce enough muzzle flash to be an issue (Bullseye, Clays, WST, Titegroup, W231/HP-38, Universal). Muzzle flashes were more visible as small reddish to orange flashes viewed from the side but to the shooters, it was not bright enough or long enough flash to diminish the constriction of pupils to blind the shooters. If we could make out the targets/stands, we were able to engage the targets and point shoot as sights were difficult to see.

I volunteered at an indoor range where our defensive shooting instructor also taught local PD/SD/SWAT members and he arranged low light shooting stages for some of us to do point shooting exercises with factory ammunition and FMJ/JHP muzzle flashes were comparable or bit larger than reloads we tested. The objective of the low light shooting exercise was to duplicate night defensive shooting situations and we focused on the targets and not on our sights to perform point shooting"​

Based on my total dark night testing, I would be comfortable with faster than W231/HP-38 burn rate powder muzzle flash to not blind your pupil from targets. (And this is where target focused point shooting comes in handy ;)).

When moderator taliv requested information on low flash powder to use with night vision, I conducted low light/night time muzzle flash testing and here are my findings - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?threads/need-low-flash-9mm-powder.809859/page-2#post-10357740

HP-38 4.8 gr RMR 115 gr FMJ @ 1.130" - This load was used as reference and produced 4" long by 2" high orange colored muzzle flash from the side (Shooter's point of view - 1.5" round flash).

BE-86 5.2 gr RMR 124 gr HM RN @ 1.150" - 2" long by 3" high bright orange muzzle flash (Shooter's POV - 3" round flash). This was by far the brightest muzzle flash of four powders tested.

CFE-Pistol
5.2 gr RMR 124 gr HM RN @ 1.150" - 1" long by 2" high orange colored muzzle flash (Shooter's POV - 2" round flash)."

Promo 3.8-4.0 gr RMR 124 gr HM RN @ 1.150" - 1" long by 1" high faint orange colored muzzle flash (Shooter's POV - 0.5" round flash). In low light, muzzle flash was almost non-detectable.
 
Last edited:
I have fired a similar load, 121 ACME coated, with HP-38 and Titegroup with similar results. Firing was through a FNS 9mm, I believe it was a 4.5" barrel (standard barrel for the handgun, google will tell you). Flash was noticeable but not enough to interfere significantly with vision. From LLs post, you may wish to get a can of Red dot or Bullseye. 244 should be worth a try as well, but no personal experience.

Surprisingly, Unique is relatively low flash compared to HS-6 from my .357 6" barrel with 158 cast. Not surprisingly significantly less flash than H110 LOL.
 
Thanks everybody, I appreciate the info.

Checking my data and it looks like I can make minor with a 124 and AA#2 even though it is getting up on the high side of the charge range.
(nice that Western lists +P data)

I think I will load some up with AA#2 and give them a try.
It may not make a big difference but I figured anything I could do that might help would be worth it. (I need all the help I can get:D)
 
I do most of my shooting at an old indoor range and the lighting isn't the best. When I restarted loading again after many years absence I started with HP-38 in the 9mm and loved the results. Until we moved up and also started with 45acp loading. Both the wife and I noticed the muzzle flash as soon as we shot it the 1st time. From there I moved to Ramshot Silhouette as it is flash suppressed and actually advertised as such for use indoors. What a difference. It was as accurate and consistent on the targets as the HP-38 was with not nearly the smoke and no discernible flash. After that powder my only other experience is with AA#2 and some AA#5.

I haven't used any Bullseye since it was sold as Hercules Bullseye.
 
Bleep clip on my Streamlight TLR1-HL broke when changing batteries before the match so in stead of a weapon light I ended up shooting it with a handheld light, which made things much more, ah interesting.
The memo that I got said "No plan survives first contact with the enemy". :D

Optics fail, batteries die, even BU iron sights can be knocked off but point shooting can prevail when sighted shooting is less of an option.
 
I discovered it is not as bad changing mags while holding the light as I thought it would be.
Initially thought I would have to stick the light in a pocket or in my arm pit but it can be done while holding the light with a thumb a finger and grabbing the mag with the other fingers.
Can't really get both hands on the gun though, Not planning on shooting handheld light I had to sort of figure out how to do it on the fly. Ended up with weak hand holding the light under my strong hand with the gun,
better than strong hand only.
Interesting experience, will shoot the next one when it comes along.
Texas Stars are fun in the daytime, not so much at night, lots of mag changes. (10 round mags)
 
Last edited:
AA2 seemed to work well for me in the Dark. No blinding flash.
Bleep clip on my Streamlight TLR1-HL broke when changing batteries before the match so in stead of a weapon light I ended up shooting it with a handheld light, which made things much more, ah interesting.
Timer radiation doesn’t help with the equipment malfunctions either.
Glad to see the powder worked, what I find is that the smoke can be a bigger problem than muzzle flash. Any light near the gun, mounted or handheld will amplify the smoke particulates and add a new dimension to the dark stages especially if air movement is a minimum. I also think the one-shot lube may be contributing to the amount of smoke.

In IDPA you are required to hold the light, it cannot be mounted anywhere. I’d recommend you look at these methods:
https://www.shootingillustrated.com/articles/2017/9/29/4-flashlight-techniques-for-concealed-carry/

I’ve settled on the “Rogers” or syringe technique, it seems to work for me the best.
 
Thanks for the link, appreciate it.
I ended up sort of doing the Harries Technique, (didn't know what it was called when I was doing it).
The Rogers (SureFire) Technique looks interesting.
Going to order two replacement switch covers for my Streamlight so I have a spare......

Probably would have been fine with the batteries in the light but like and idiot I decided to change them right before I took off for the match.
(Breaking the if it's not broke don't fix it rule!)
 
Last edited:
I discovered it is not as bad changing mags while holding the light as I thought it would be.
Initially thought I would have to stick the light in a pocket or in my arm pit but it can be done while holding the light with a thumb a finger and grabbing the mag with the other fingers.

The low/no light matches I shot didn’t allow firearm mounted lights so I made a device that looked similar to brass knuckles but with just one slot for all 4 fingers and it has an adjustable rail to mount a gun mounted light that was turned on and off with the weak hand thumb. Snatch it up with the weak hand while the strong hand draws the pistol. Still have all dexterity without a risk of dropping it. I took it with me to the West Texas regionals one year, shooting SSP and was the highest overall, the #2 shooter was around 30 seconds behind me, I have never won a regional with that margin before or since, I think I had an advantage over everyone else’s equipment.
 
The low/no light matches I shot didn’t allow firearm mounted lights so I made a device that looked similar to brass knuckles but with just one slot for all 4 fingers and it has an adjustable rail to mount a gun mounted light that was turned on and off with the weak hand thumb. Snatch it up with the weak hand while the strong hand draws the pistol. Still have all dexterity without a risk of dropping it. I took it with me to the West Texas regionals one year, shooting SSP and was the highest overall, the #2 shooter was around 30 seconds behind me, I have never won a regional with that margin before or since, I think I had an advantage over everyone else’s equipment.
Not to derail the thread topic, but:
8.8.4 Flashlights
Only hand held lights may be used in IDPA competition. For Physically Disabled shooters, refer to Physically Disabled Shooters Section.
Lights may not be attached to the shooter’s hand, wrist, or arm in any fashion.
Rings or straps that go around any part of the shooter’s body (finger, palm, wrist, etc.) are not allowed.

I’m surprised they let you continue with it, but congrats on the competition! I shoot SSP as well.
 
Interesting ... I sense another myth busting thread in the works. ;)
I’m in! I was trying to figure out the best way to video and capture the smoke from the “smokeless” powders . Then we can add the various lubes in a controlled fashion and see if there’s a difference. However, there’s a very low ROI for this exercise as there are few low light stages and most don’t worry about it.
 
Not to derail the thread topic, but:
8.8.4 Flashlights
Only hand held lights may be used in IDPA competition. For Physically Disabled shooters, refer to Physically Disabled Shooters Section.
Lights may not be attached to the shooter’s hand, wrist, or arm in any fashion.
Rings or straps that go around any part of the shooter’s body (finger, palm, wrist, etc.) are not allowed.

I’m surprised they let you continue with it, but congrats on the competition! I shoot SSP as well.

That match was back way before Joyce and the “tiger team” started jacking with all the rules. Only one back in ‘07 I can remember for sure was that it couldn’t be mounted to the firearm, and maybe not held in mouth, I’d have to find an old rule book though.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top