NJ Gov. Wants to Raise Firearm Fees 20 Times Present Costs

Status
Not open for further replies.

Speedo66

Member
Joined
May 31, 2008
Messages
11,066
Location
Flatlandistan
The governor of NJ is proposing raising the fees on firearms from $27 to $550, seems fair. In addition, he wants a 10% tax on ammo, and a 2.5% tax on guns.

"Though he is prohibited by state law from directing the new revenue toward specific programs, Mr. Murphy said it would go toward anti-violence initiatives." Why let the law stand in the way?

Here's the article: https://www.nytimes.com/2019/04/22/nyregion/nj-gun-laws.html
 
If it passes (and it seems there is nothing that about a quarter of the states won't pass if it is restrictive of firearms in some way), this will make an interesting court case. There has been a federal excise tax on firearms and ammunition for many, many years, so the constitutional permissibility of having a tax on those things seems pretty clear. However, this particular proposal seems to be more in the "the power to tax is the power to destroy" vein, and an effectively-prohibitory tax on the essential objects of a constitutional right might be a bridge too far.
 
I think there will be sufficient kick back to forestall this. One would think there has to be some sort of justification, actual administrative fees vs. a punitive tax.

The article mentions that the state legislature is not necessarily for it.
 
an effectively-prohibitory tax on the essential objects of a constitutional right might be a bridge too far.

The poll tax was barred as an unacceptable cost for exercising the right to vote. Punitive gun taxes ought to be treated the same, but they have gotten away with it for years since the NFA.
 
Next, a poll tax...

Again, "poll tax" is not the argument we want to make.

A per-word tax on speech... or taxing paper products (including books and magazines and pamphlets) at $500 per pound... those would be more analogous. And few think that should be done.
 
Here is an interesting article about creation of economic barriers to firearm ownership, and their characterization as discriminatory. The data is old, but the concepts are still valid.

https://guncite.com/journals/gun_control_markdis.html

Talk with a serious gun-control advocate about methods used to make gun ownership more difficult, and you may hear an argument that runs something like this: "Well, if we increase the prices of guns and bullets, those people will not be able to afford them; after all, those people are the ones who commit the greatest percentage of crimes." Who is this person referring to when he/she says "those people"? The answer is clear--minorities and the poor. Since substituting "blacks" for "those people" clearly renders the statement racist and patronizing (not to mention unconstitutional), gun control advocates, intent on making gun-ownership more costly, have devised a variety of legislative means to camouflage their true motivations. Such legislation merely represents a continuation of gun-control advocates' long-standing affair with racial and socioeconomic discrimination.

Combining the fundamental right to self-preservation with the basic postulate of liberal theory, which states that people surrender their natural rights only to the extent that they are recompensed with more effective political rights, leads to the conclusion that every gun control law must be justified in terms of the law's contribution to the personal security of the citizenry. Victims must be able to defend themselves against criminals as soon as crime strikes, and the ability to defend oneself is much more critical in poor and minority neighborhoods which are ravaged by crime and do not have adequate police protection. Since the courts have consistently ruled that the police have no duty to protect the individual citizen, and that there is, as the Supreme Court put it, "no constitutional right to be protected by the state against being murdered by criminals or madmen," citizens, regrettably, are put in the position of having to defend themselves. While the deterrent effect of the police surely wards off many would-be criminals (particularly in areas where police patrol more--i.e., affluent areas), the many citizens who need personal protection are forced to face the reality that the police do not and cannot function as bodyguards for ordinary people. Therefore, individuals must remain responsible for their own protection, with the police providing only an auxiliary general deterrent.

Legislation such as the melting-point laws are intended to prevent the poor from possessing a firearm even though the poor are disproportionately victims of crime. What compounds this situation is the fact that the poorer areas of cities (where most of the crime occurs) rarely get the same police protection that the more affluent areas get (where the least crime occurs). Therefore, any gun control which takes cheaper guns off the market, and thereby prevents the poor from obtaining a handgun, is arguably doubly unfair. Like it or not, gun ownership is legal in most parts of the country, and as long as we find racial and socioeconomic discrimination by our lawmakers offensive (and have a constitution which makes it illegal), there can be no place for laws whose primary effect is to deprive the poor of their legal right to choose the same means of protection available to those who can more easily afford it. [Emphasis mine]
 
"In its majestic equality, the law forbids rich and poor alike to sleep under bridges, beg in the streets and steal loaves of bread" (and own inexpensive firearms).
-Adapted from Anatole France.
 
Last edited:
Just wait until the magic day when SCOTUS voids all the nasty gun laws.
 
If it passes (and it seems there is nothing that about a quarter of the states won't pass if it is restrictive of firearms in some way), this will make an interesting court case. There has been a federal excise tax on firearms and ammunition for many, many years, so the constitutional permissibility of having a tax on those things seems pretty clear. However, this particular proposal seems to be more in the "the power to tax is the power to destroy" vein, and an effectively-prohibitory tax on the essential objects of a constitutional right might be a bridge too far.

I don't see this as being a much of a court case. It is certainly one that I do not want to go the Supreme Court.

I see the Governors proposal as coming straight out of Trumps "Art of the Deal." Ask for a obscene amount then compromise for a lower more "reasonable" figure. For example how about raising the fee only $100.00.

As for the NFA and elitism remember it is tax law that was passed in very economically depression era so the $200.00 was way beyond the means of almost all Americans. Chief Justice Roberts has taken a liking to defining controversial case such as The Affordable Care Act as a tax law and is showing strong liberal tendencies with his recent decisions.
 
This one could get very interesting, if passed, and then if challenged in court. So far, sales taxes on ammo and firearms have not been found to be unconstitutional. Fees and other charges have been upheld. However, in Murphy v. Guerrero, a judge in the 9th circuit found that a $1,000 excise tax on handguns in a US territory (the Northern Marianas) was unconstitutional. In the decision, the judge held that the vast majority of pistols and revolvers sold by an online vendor were listed in the $250-$750 price range and that charging such a high tax, in almost all cases more than the value of the gun, was punitive and served no legitimate interest.

So, fees and taxes are permissible, unless they are indefensibly high. One would think that would be the case with this proposed NJ measure, where a $550 tax is still higher than the value of a great many firearms. Not sure how far a civil rights argument would go, but a $550 tax would be disproportionately punitive on middle and lower income individuals - i.e. the poll tax argument.

Another benchmark is what other states are actually charging for fees to possess or transfer firearms. Setting aside concealed weapons permits, most states do not even charge a fee to possess a firearms. Among those that do the average is around $20, if you remove the two outliers $100 for Mass). Some localities, like NYC have onerous fees as well, but none as high as the NJ proposal. So, the NJ proposal in indefensible, if only on the basis of what other states are doing in practice.

If it passes (and it seems there is nothing that about a quarter of the states won't pass if it is restrictive of firearms in some way), this will make an interesting court case. There has been a federal excise tax on firearms and ammunition for many, many years, so the constitutional permissibility of having a tax on those things seems pretty clear. However, this particular proposal seems to be more in the "the power to tax is the power to destroy" vein, and an effectively-prohibitory tax on the essential objects of a constitutional right might be a bridge too far.
 
Yep. I mean, the line of questions to the state seeking to impose the tax is pretty easy: So you say a $500 tax is acceptable. How about a $1,000 tax? A $10,000 tax? A $1 million tax?

Either their answers are "yes" across the board, in which case they've conceded that the right being taxed is completely illusory under their analysis, or they stop at some point and say "no." And at that point, they've conceded that their power is limited, and you're just arguing about where the line is.
 
Probably, although there is no recognized constitutional right to put whatever substances you want inside your body. That personally strikes me as odd, but it's legally pretty well accepted.
 
Don't worry, they'll back down. The final tax will only increase by 3x instead of 20x, and people will thank them.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top