NMA: ASM vs Pietta

[kBob]

I was just doing Periodic Maintenance on my repro Remington NMAs this after noon and got to playing around.

Anybody cataloged the differences between the two brands?

I expected from all my reading that the Pietta would be bigger in all ways and it does seem to be a hair thicker as the cylinder will not fit the ASM window from top to bottom. I figured hey-hey lets see how much smaller the ASM cylinder looks in the pieta frame.....and would you believe the length of the ASM was too long to fit between the recoil plate and forcing cone on the Pietta?

Turns out the barrel on the ASM seems very slightly longer than the pieta when measured from the front of the frame than the Pietta.

Got me thinking about breaking out the calipers and doing some measuring just for giggles.

I had always heard the ASM felt less bulky in the hand than the Pietta and when I bought it at a show I thought the ASM was just the same.....until I held one in each hand and switched hands back and forth several times.....the ASM does feel smaller and in my hand better than the Pietta. Danged if I can SEE the difference though. The angles and tips of the hammers are a teenie-tiny bit different on the two guns but again the ASM just feels better, go figure.

Anyway before I go crazy with tearing things apart and measuring madly .....and even taking pictures to prove I did it..... has anyone else actually cataloged the differences?

How many different makes of repro Remington NMAs are out there and how are they all different?

How does the size of the originals ( the 1863 NMA that seems to get copied and called an 1858 by most folks) compare to each of the repros?

I will say the rifleng on the ASM also seems deeper and sharper than the Pietta's and looking at it from the muzzle immediately puts one in mind of Uberti's logo!

Thoughts, comments, and warnings all appreciated.

-kBob

 

[D. Buck Stopshere]

I can't say much about the comparison between ASM & Pietta, nor comparing the orginals with the repros. However, Val Forgett Jr and Aldo Uberti both told me (separately) that early on, in the beginning, that the first repro Remingtons had smaller scale frames (the "two-finger grip") so, that counterfeiting could be minimized.

Its easier to follow the original models by designated name than it is to follow the repros by designated name.

Unless I missed something in Norm's book, "Flayderman's Guide to Antique American Firearms and Their Values", there is no reference to a "Model 1858 Remington". Its likely a moniker that was thought up by the advertising department of the various importers like Navy Arms Company & Dixie Gun Works.

If the repro is to follow the original in design, I think most of us would describe it as a "New Model Army Revolver".

Perhaps, one importer might have a copyright on a moniker and so, another importer has to come up with their own model name with different wording to set theirs apart from the competition.

Among the many "Remington" revolver manufacturers that were/are in operation between 1959 and today, are the following, starting with the highest quality:

The Hege "Army Match Maximum" must be ordered directly from Hege in Germany, no US distributor. Very popular with International & National-level NMLRA & N-SSA competitors. Its referred to as the "X-Ring Killer". Its also referred to as the "Wallet Killer", $1,700.00 USD.

Hege also offers a Remington made by Uberti, and likely tuned by Hege. Mike, here on this forum, shoots on the US International Muzzle Loading Team & can speak more about Hege's than I can. I compete with the fourth best Remington available.

Third best is Pedersoli's Remington Army revolver, but I haven't actually seen one in the flesh.

Fourth, IMHO, is the Pietta "Remington Style Deluxe Model" introduced by Navy Arms Company in the early '80's, and was geared for the US International Team by Val Forgett, JR. Val was a huge supporter of the US International Muzzle Loading Team in competition shooting. The Pietta model is still offered by Dixie Gun Works, and is called the Pietta Remington Army "Shooters" Revolver, the price is still at $950.

It was the first C&B repro Remington to have the "full-frame" grip. Remington repros made prior to 1982(?) had a "two-finger grip". The Pietta Deluxe Model/Shooters Model had/has a "three-finger grip" as do most all of the other brands today.

Next, for me, would be the current Uberti Remington, because it has for the serious target shooter, a dovetailed front sight that can be moved laterally for windage adjustment.

You have the Pietta, which is very popular on this board, followed by the following discontinued manufacturers: Armi San Paulo, & Armi San Marco.

Armi San Marco, Armi San Paulo, Pietta, and Uberti, made Remington-style revolvers for many importers, including Armsport, CVA, Cimarron, Dixie Gun Works, EMF, Euroarms, Log Cabin Sport Shop, Lyman, Navy Arms Company, Palmetto Armory, Replica Arms, Richland Arms, Sile Dist.,Taylor's & Company, & Traditions.

Lastly, there was a "hand-made" Remington revolver made here in the US, IIRC, known as the "Whitlowe" Remington.

Hope this helps. I stand corrected on any errors that may be posted. I can remember my ancestors back four hundred years ago, but I cannot remember where I was last Sunday.:banghead:

 

[nobody1369]

any idea who made cva s kit gun nma? my dad bought one for me around 1980

 

[nobody1369]

by the way those kits where rough and mostly not hardened

 

[Crawdad1]

The Hege "Army Match Maximum" must be ordered directly from Hege in Germany, no US distributor. Very popular with International & National-level NMLRA & N-SSA competitors. Its referred to as the "X-Ring Killer". Its also referred to as the "Wallet Killer", $1,700.00 USD

That's the Remmy built by Feinwerkbau (FWB) right?

Along with their Rogers and Spencer model, the N-SSA also considers these the absolute best you can buy.

 

[D. Buck Stopshere]

Crawdad, You may be right on the Hege being made by FWB. Mike from MD, can confirm that. Hege offers a Rogers & Spencer that is made by FWB and tuned by Hege.

"Nobody", I have CVA 1860 Army kit gun made by Pietta and a 2nd model Colt Dragoon made by Armi San Marco for sale. Hope that helps.

 

[Hellgate]

The ASP/Euroarms Remmie to me, is the smallest gripped & lightest of the bunch. It is closer to a Beals version.

 

[Gaucho Gringo]

You left out the Remingtons made by E.N. Santa Barbara. In many circles they are considered above the Uberti made ones. I should have bought one when they were cheap. Nowadays they rarely come up for sale and only one has been on GB in the last four or five months. I have an ASP-Euroarms .36 Remington and has a noticeably smaller frame when compared side by side with the Pietta's I own.

 

[kBob]

Had a few moments last night to risk screw driver scratches on the NMAs.

Pietta grip is longer and bulkier. While the Pietta places my middle finger knuckle right behind and against the trigger guard the ASM lets the knuckle slip by. Length wise the Pietta allows all fingers on board, but the ASM has some pinkie holding over and that pinky wants to curl up under the butt of the revolver.

Frame shapes are also slightly different with reguards to the angle front and back.

The difference in height of the two grips is likely why I ask four years back or so about why some grip screws appeared lower than others

-kBob

 

[oldfogey4ever]

I am rather curious about the differences in grip designs or dimensions, as I've long thought of modifying my Pietta 1858 buffalo grips to a more "finger-friendly" design (dang thing does make my knuckle ache with 50gr. 3f loads). k-Bob, would you mind posting a few pics illustrating the differences in grip styles between manufacturers?