'Nother CNN Hit Piece

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charon

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Another CNN Anderson Cooper Blog hit piece on firearms -- acting as the Philly mouthpiece
http://www.cnn.com/CNN/Programs/anderson.cooper.360/blog/

Philly gunning for more control
With more than 300 murders so far this year, Philadelphia has been struggling to contain gun violence.
If I was a Philadelphia resident, I could walk into any gun shop in the city and buy 50, 100, even 1,000 guns, just like that. All they would do is run an instant background check, and assuming my record was clean, I'd walk out with all that firepower.

There's no waiting period, no rules on who I can and can't sell those weapons to. In fact, state law says I don't even have to get a license for the guns or register them.

Could this be contributing to the gun violence in Philadelphia? So far this year, there have been more than 300 murders, and more than 85 percent of them were the result of a firearm, according to the Philadelphia Police Department.

Ray Jones, a community volunteer with the group Men United, blames state lawmakers for not passing tougher gun laws and for keeping cities like Philadelphia from passing their own regulations.

"It's about survival," Jones said. "People are dying in the streets and we need to get help."

The fight over gun laws has turned into a power struggle between the state government and Philadelphia.

Back in 1994, the state legislature overturned an assault weapons ban, making AK-47s as easy to get as hunting rifles. The next year, rules were eased on concealed weapons. Today it's actually against the law in Pennsylvania for a policeman to ask anyone why they want to carry a concealed weapon.

At last check, there are now 29,000 permits to carry concealed weapons in Philadelphia, compared to about 800 applications for permits back in 1995. One law enforcement source told me the state is handing out permits to carry like "candy."

State Senator Vincent Fumo is a gun owner, and he supports the current laws. "People want to think that this is the wild west, and we don't have any laws. What we don't have is enforcement of those laws," he told CNN.

Many here in the city argue that if Philadelphia had "home rule", as it's called, and the city was allowed to pass more stringent gun laws, people would be safer.

"It really would be appropriate for the city to determine its own sort of destiny," Jones told CNN. "Now our hands are sort of handcuffed."

Who do you think has the right to set the ground rules when it comes to guns? The state or the city?

-- Randi Kaye, CNN Correspondent
My Response

Wow, where to begin.

First, the vast majority of firearm crime is not committed by legal firearm owners. Gangland criminals and street thugs use illegal firearms, just like the same criminals sell illegal drugs that are fully prohibited in every state. As it has been found in Britain, if you outlaw all guns the criminals smuggle them in just as easily as they smuggle in illegal drugs.

The type of increased regulation you seem to be suggesting here only impacts those of us who obey the laws. And, a recent study by the CDC, no friend in general of firearm owners, recently found that gun laws have no quantifiable impact on firearm violence. One more time, criminals do not obey the law.
First, while it is hard to pin down a single national study on the issue, common figures from individual studies conducted in areas like Philadelphia and Chicago show that upwards of 70 percent of murders are committed by individuals with existing criminal records with a similar figure for their victims. Basically, criminal on criminal violence. In most cases the criminal did not buy a firearm through legal channels. That pesky background check you so easily dismiss prevents that.

2nd, just how many concealed carry holders are involved in an illegal use of their the firearm? as the CATO Institute notes: "We now have at least 10 years of actual evidence from 25 different states with diverse rural and metropolitan populations, including the cities of Miami, Houston, Dallas, Pittsburgh, Philadelphia, Richmond, Atlanta, New Orleans, Seattle, and Portland, regarding perhaps as many as 1 million permit holders carrying their weapons for hundreds of millions of man-hours. The results are in, and they show unequivocally that (a) the number of persons currently in possession of permits to carry firearms ranges from 1 to 5 percent of the state's population; (b) criminals do not apply for permits; (c) permit holders do not take to settling their traffic disputes or arguments with guns, or "take the law into their own hands"; (d) shall-issue licensing states have almost no problems with violent criminality or inappropriate brandishing of firearms by permit holders; and (e) some permit holders have used their guns to defend themselves and others. There appears to be no reported case of any permit holder adjudged to have wrongfully killed another in connection with carrying and using his weapon in public. As of this writing, shall-issue licensing laws are creating no reported law enforcement problem in any of the 25 states that have enacted them. Dodge City has not returned; the blood is not running in the streets."

Finally, as to the Evil Assault Weapons, according to the FBI any type of rifle is used in roughly 1-2 percent of firearm homicides. As scary as they are in TV crime dramas, the use of a semi automatic rifle (much less an automatic Assault rifle which is HIGHLY regulated) is a non issue in reality.

Occasionally, like in Miami, such weapons are used by criminals. But in a country of over 300 million people it's just not common at all. They tend to be too expensive and too hard to conceal for criminals.

Also, when you mention: "making AK-47s as easy to get as hunting rifles." well, the second amendment has far more to do with an AK 47 than it will ever have to do with the "hunting use" smokescreen. Hunting is not referenced in the Bill of Rights or the Federalist Papers, etc. Hunting use is simply along for the ride. And again, such weapons are used in homicide about as often as a baseball bat.

Philadelphia has a people problem not a gun problem. People problems are tough on politicians, so its easy to blame the gun people use. I would suggest that addressing issues like inner-city poverty, a culture where people don't snitch and out of control criminal gangs will do a lot more to address the city's problems than dealing with the legal gun owner non problem. The real issues are a lot harder though.

Let's see if it gets approved.
 
CNN =

C ommunist
N ews
N etwork

Have to say I'm not surprised at all by this.
 
Dear Randi Kaye,

Straw purchases are illegal. There are rules pertaining to who you can and can't sell your weapons to. Also, if you purchase 1,000 guns as per your example then turn around and sell them. you are acting as an unlicensed firearms dealer. Also against the law. Thanks for playing, liar.
 
Here's what I replied...

Rather than try to respond point by point to everything in the article, I will restrict myself to answering Randi's question at the end: "Who has the right to set the ground rules when it comes to guns? The state or the city?"

If you are talking about the basic right of individual citizens to own and carry arms, the answer is that neither the state nor the city have standing to infringe on a right recognized in the Constitution.

However, if you are talking about which lower governmental entity can enact parameters within which citizens must exercise that fundamental right, my answer is that it must be the state instead of the city.

The simple reality is that a city is too small a jurisdiction to make meaningful laws in such things. The cases of New York and Chicago make the point. They have gun laws so strict as to be draconian, yet they still have two problems: criminals who use guns they get illegally on the streets and poorer citizens who cannot defend themselves because they can't move to the suburbs where gun laws are more rational.

Since gun laws NEVER stop criminals from acquiring and using firearms, all you would accomplish by giving cities the right to set more restrictive laws would be go guarantee that poor people would be the victims of crime more often than they already are.
 
I can't believe who wrong someone can be. I have additional comments:

If the state's AWB was overturned in 1994, is was subsequently replaced with a Federal AWB. This is similiar to LA Chief of Police, Chief Bratton, complaining, very dishonestly, how the expiration of the federal AWB would result in a Assault weapon "crime wave" in his city, while California already had a much more severe and wasn't expiring.

All legal sales of guns have been registered since 1968.

What gun shop that you go to has 1000 guns? Buy more than one handgun and the ATF gets a mandatory report.

And 85% of Philly's murders were committed with a firearm? Are we to believe all those were committed with an "assault weapon?" How many were committed with a handgun? How many were committed by a concealed handgun carried legally by a license holder? I thought I could by a gun without a license and without registration! If I could get 1000 guns without a license, why would I get a permit to carry it for the purpose of murder? If the problem is so prevalent with license holders, wouldn't the police just check all those people?

And is "home rule" just an excuse to deny people their civil rights? Why not just have a "home rule" law allowing the police to enter anybodies home without a warrant. Or a home rule law prohibiting free speech. Yet, Jones, want the city to have a right to ignore the RKBA and state law, because he doesn't happen to like that one. In fact, the constitution of Pennsylvania states:"Section 21. The right of the citizens to bear arms in defense of themselves and the State shall not be questioned. " Seems to me, concealed carry laws are a constitutional right of Pennsylvania. For the police to question or deny a permit based upon a person's reason is not.
 
Charon, I just checked the comments section - your piece is in there, and it looks like they posted pretty much the whole thing!!

Mine, too! And several others with pro-RKBA comments.

I am pleasantly surprised.
 
As ClickClickD'oh alluded to, all multiple gun purchases are reported to BATFE. If Cooper was anything more than an ignorant hack masquarading as a reporter, he would have discovered that in the research and fact checking that are a part of any professionally reported story.

I guarantee you that if someone (non-FFL) bought 100 guns at one time, in Philly or anywhere else, BATFE agents would show up at his house soon after asking him what he planned to do with them.

And if he sold or gave away more than 1 or 2 of them, he would be in for a long stay at "Club Fed".

But those "inconvenient truths" get in the way of the propaganda piece that Cooper wanted to put on the tube.

And his editors were too ignorant and/or biased to do anything about it.
 
If I was a Philadelphia resident, I could walk into any gun shop in the city and buy 50, 100, even 1,000 guns, just like that. All they would do is run an instant background check, and assuming my record was clean, I'd walk out with all that firepower.

Yeah, because you're not a criminal, so you won't be treated like one. Shock! :what:

There's no waiting period, no rules on who I can and can't sell those weapons to. In fact, state law says I don't even have to get a license for the guns or register them.

Yeah, because you're not a criminal, so you won't be treated like one. Shock! :what:

Also a license does not a good person make. How many people have driver's licenses, but routinely disobey traffic laws?
 
So tell them...

Frankie, Clickclick,

Good on you for spotting the factual errors in the story. What you need to do now is post comments and politely and respectfully point those out to Cooper (who was not the author of the original piece).

They are posting pro-2A comments, folks, don't just gripe about it in here. (My apologies if you've already written CNN; you just didn't mention it in here.)

This is a great opportunity to participate in a rational, fact-based manner in the debate that's going on. Grab it.
 
I live near Philly!

I live in Lower Bucks County about 10 min. from the Philadelphia City limits; so I hear about this all the time. Just a couple of points that I've heard from talking to an ADA in the city I know and a few others:

1) Philly is the drug HUB of the east. A very large percentage come through Philadelphia for re-distribution. This is one of the reasons we had a problem with biker gangs in SE PA and South Jersey a few years ago.

2) The vast majority of guns taken are small .38s, Glocks, and Sigs in 9mm and .40 S&W. As a general rule rifles cant be well hidden and thugs tend to use what the local PD uses.

3) Almost none of those arrested legally obtained their weapons and none had a valid carry permit

4) When they show a captured "gun cache" on the news it is typically they same kinds of guns. Rarely is an AK on the table, but SKSs do show up more often. There is often an illegally sawed-off shotgun.

The city council had passed a number of bills and resolutions; all of which are non binding or have been ruled invalid by the courts.

As a bonus the state constitution (1968) states in section 21:

The right of the citizens to bear arms in defense of themselves and the State shall not be questioned.

Corresponding provisions of prior Constitutions:
Constitution of 1776, Dec. of Rights, Cl. XIII.
Constitution of 1790, Art. IX, Sec. 21 (Verbatim).
Constitution of 1838, Art. IX, Sec. 21 (Verbatim).
Constitution of 1874, Art. I, Sec. 21 (Verbatim).

That seems pretty clear doesn't it?:neener:
 
Here's the comment I just left there:

"Quite a piece of mis-information. I will not counter each and every inaccuracy in your story, for others posters here have already done an excellent job. I would have you look at major metropolitan cities like Boston, Washington, D.C., Chicago, Detroit, Los Angles, etc., and you will see some of the most restrictive gun laws in the country today. Yet, these places also have the highest violent crime rates in the country. Municipal goverments have a terrible track record when trying to deal with the common problems of infrastructure, loss of businesses, decay (Philadelphia had such a severe problem of buildings collapsing that the mayor had to form a task force) and shrinking revenues. The thought of a local goverment restricting an individual's rights because of an ill-concieved idea on the part of politicans is down-right scary. Try to smoke, eat, or talk on a cell phone in any major city. And all in the name of "Public Safety".
The state gun laws of Pennsylvania cover the whole state, not just Philadelphia (something conveniently forgotten by urban residents). And the laws of each state should be left up to that state's governing body. I don't want California or New York or Maryland to tell me what I can and can't do in my state, nor do I want Philadelphia or Newark or Seattle to force their will on me."
 
Let me throw this out there.

You are correct in that crime isn't generally committed by legal firearm owners.

But don't we have a problem with straw purchases and gun thefts?


For the sake of discussion, would you support tough gun laws throwing people in jail or requiring severe fines for not taking responsibility for their own firearms?

Laws like these would preserve the low barrier for ownership while placing some responsibility on the gun owners themselves.

Keep in mind I am not endorsing these ideas, but simply throwing it out there for discussion.
 
Well, they caught a guy that they think was the shooter, and guess what?? He is one of the many, many felons who have been in and out of prison so often it is ridiculous.

Maybe what we need is criminal control.
 
Ever hear of......

.... the gerbil syndrome?

Every cage of animals my children had during their growing up years experienced the same phenomena:

When the population of the cage reached a certain point, the animals therein started killing/eating other cage mates. Usually the younger, but sometimes, just other animals.

What can I say........................... ?

-HowardC
 
Romak IV said,

And is "home rule" just an excuse to deny people their civil rights? Why not just have a "home rule" law allowing the police to enter anybody's home without a warrant.

Or a home rule law prohibiting free speech. Yet, Jones wants the city to have a right to ignore the RKBA and state law, because he doesn't happen to like that one.

A significant point which bears repeating. I thought home rule cities had clauses in their charters such that they would observe the State and Federal Constitutions.

Well, maybe not, and that's why some cities are referred to as People's Republics.

And why there seems to be an inverse relationship between population density and freedom.
 
Denver is a "home rule" city and DC is supposed to be and so they claim. It is just an excuse to set up little "people's republics" as owning a gun id Denver can become hazardous. The police departments in the above cities will arrest you for gun violations, and even if you eventually win, it will cost you dearly.
 
Let me throw this out there.

You are correct in that crime isn't generally committed by legal firearm owners.

But don't we have a problem with straw purchases and gun thefts?


For the sake of discussion, would you support tough gun laws throwing people in jail or requiring severe fines for not taking responsibility for their own firearms?

Laws like these would preserve the low barrier for ownership while placing some responsibility on the gun owners themselves.

Keep in mind I am not endorsing these ideas, but simply throwing it out there for discussion.

I'm from California...the State with the toughest gun laws in the Nation. Get yourself a copy of "The California Penal Code." Check out the section called "The dangerous weapons control act of 2007." In it, you'll find the ideas you've mentioned have been instituted into codified law in California. Yesterday, a man was shot dead in his drive way in Santa Ana CA. Check "The Los Angeles Times" and "The Orange County Register" and track the murders for a week. You'll find that despite all the guncontrol being passed, it's ineffectual.

The big lie proponants tell you is guncontrol will cure crime. We all know guncontrol is only effective as a tool for convicting those who have been caught in a criminal act. Guncontrol is a reactive tool, NOT a proactive tool.
 
More propoganda from the Communist News Network

Colorado has pre-emption, Denver CANNOT ban CCW. They tried to sue the state on this point and lost the case. Denver can, however, ban assault weapons and carry in city parks. Denver also tried to ban car carry of firearms, but with pre-emption, Denver lost again.

Now to the propoganda piece by Randi Kay, god I love these talking head, ignorant bimbo's who don't know a damn thing about what they are discussing, (sarcasm). I would like to see the statistic that show's concealed carry permit holders are committing murders, we will never see it, BECAUSE THERE ISN'T ONE! I'm very disappointed in Anderson Cooper not challenging her on these flagrant lies. Randi Kay says "AK-47's are flooding the streets". Really??? Lets see the weapon's confiscation room at the Philly PD, I'm willing to bet there are only a few AK's in there, and a boatload of Glock's.:neener: Randi Kay says "guns are as easy to obtain as a pizza". Really??? In order for me to obtain a CCW permit in my state, I have to A) apply at the sheriff's office, B) pay an initial $100 fee, C) go through an FBI and state background check, D) wait three weeks, and then I get my permit. I have to go through a background check to buy a gun, we all do. For the drug dealer's and gang bangers, yes, they can get guns pretty much on a whim, despite any law you might pass, they laugh at gun laws. Randi Kay says the police aren't allowed to ask why someone wants a concealed carry permit. I say its none of their damn business! Whats a person gonna say, yes officer, I want this permit so I can go kill someone.:rolleyes: What a bunch of ignorant, emotional, morons. She also advocated for licensing and registration, as if the criminals are going to register theirs!:rolleyes: Idiots!

This kind of pure propogandist, alarmist, misleading reporting on the gun issue really pisses me off.
 
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