NRA Carry Guard Training?

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Anyone have any experience with the new NRA Carry Guard training? It appears to be in direct competition with their Certified Instructors other than being significantly more expensive. How is Carry Guard training different/better than the NRA Defensive Pistol or Personal Protection in the Home classes? I am interested in this forum's opinion on this new program.
 
First, I'm NRA certified to teach Personal Protection Inside the Home and Outside the Home. I've also taken several classes at Gunsite and several classes with the late Louis Awerbuck. I've taken Massad Ayoob's LFI-1 (now called MAG-40) and have been an assistant instructor for MAG-40. The following are my immediate impressions based on what little I know at this point about the Carry Guard courses:

  • The NRA Personal Protection classes are very basic. Inside the Home is approximately 8 hours, and Outside the Home is designed to be a 16 hour class. They are generally decent classes and can be a good beginning for one's training. And if they are all that are available, they are certainly better than not getting training.

  • The Carry Guard classes are each be three days. They are intended to build on each other, and the Level ii and Level II classes will include material well beyond what's covered in the Personal Protection classes (including low light training and force-on-force training). The cost, at $850 for a three day class, is about typical for similar classes. For comparison, the core class at Gunsite, Pistol 250, is five days and currently costs $1,675.00. I think Gunsite Pistol 250 is pretty much the "gold standard" for entry level defensive pistol classes.

  • Of course the quality of the instructor(s) is critical. It appears to be harder to be certified as a Carry Guard instructor compared with the Personal Protection classes.

  • If the NRA achieves its vision here, the Carry Guard classes will more comparable with those offered by the top schools/
 
Carry Guard is brand new with the first classes just starting in limited locations. It is 3 days, much more defensive/gunfighting oriented and has a FoF component as well (bravo).

I get the impression they will pretty tightly control the instructor certification process.
 
I get the impression they will pretty tightly control the instructor certification process.
I have been told by someone who might know or might not that anyone who is an NRA instructor will be eligible to take the instructor class for carry guard. Just like anyone who is an NRA instructor can pretty much become a personal protection instructor.

But what I was told was that the carry guard instruction will be controlled and taught by the carry guard group instead of the NRA training counselors. I got the impression that it will be substantially more rigorous.

Or it could just be talk. Who knows. The same guy told me the NRA is seriously considering going back to more instructor-led instruction for the basic classes and less internet instruction.

He's pretty tuned into the NRA instruction seeing as he's basically a full-time instructor. Although a lot of it is not NRA classes these days.
 
ilbob, the NRA's basics of pistol shooting course is now being offered in both instructor-led versions (the "ILT") and in versions that "blend" on-line and instructor-led portions. NRA pistol instructors can use either approach for their students.

And yes, NRA instructors, as well as former military members and police, are invited to apply to become Carry Guard instructors:

https://www.nracarryguard.com/training/become-an-instructor/



I see two big challenges:

1) How the Carry Guard organization balances instructor quality and instructor quantity will determine just how widespread and useful this program becomes. If it ends up being taught too seldom, or by those who are not proficient or don't know how to instruct, then it won't change enough lives to reach NRA's goal of being the "...gold standard in concealed carry training...".

2) Carry Guard welcomes anyone who can legally own a handgun to their level 1 courses, yet they note that this training may not be for everyone. "[It] is designed for those who take carrying seriously--people who want to become more proficient shooters so they can carry concealed with greater confidence." It will be interesting to see how the level 1 course curriculum balances the needs of brand new shooters (e.g. teaching the drawstroke, trigger control, sight alignment and sight picture, balancing speed and accuracy, etc.), with how "...those fundamentals are applied to real-life CCW situations, self-defense tactics and techniques, low-light shooting, force-on-force Air Soft scenarios and more" all within a three-day time frame. Designing a course that accomplishes all that in just three days and is open to new shooters must have been a very difficult task.
 
here is an interesting snippet I ran across on the carry guard web site.

NRA CARRY GUARD LEVEL ONE DIGITAL TRAINING SERIES — COMING SOON
Train whenever, wherever. If you can’t attend in-person training, the NRA Carry Guard Level One Digital Training Series is the perfect way to hone your skills and prepare yourself for lawful self-defense. Sign up for updates and be the first to know when the series becomes available.

I poked around awhile and never found a place where they list the price for their courses. maybe I just did not look in the right place.
 
1) How the Carry Guard organization balances instructor quality and instructor quantity will determine just how widespread and useful this program becomes. If it ends up being taught too seldom, or by those who are not proficient or don't know how to instruct, then it won't change enough lives to reach NRA's goal of being the "...gold standard in concealed carry training...".
I am always a little nervous about LE and former "elite" military personnel being the instructors in these kind of things. They have a much different view of things in many cases than average Joes like most of us. I am pretty sure the former special forces people they have apparently signed up as the core instructor group can shoot well, but whether they are able to adapt their military training to teach average (or maybe below average) civilians is something else. I know that it is as much about marketing as anything else, but you really cannot expect the same level of effort from average guys as from military (or LE) personnel being trained by military (or LE) personnel to perform military (or LE) functions.

I would much rather get a "lesser" instructor who can actually teach than spend three days getting yelled at by control freaks who think they are drill sgts teaching raw recruits instead of 60 year old civilians.
 
I am always a little nervous about LE and former "elite" military personnel being the instructors in these kind of things. They have a much different view of things in many cases than average Joes like most of us

What LE and former "elite" military personnel have you trained with? Who have you personally had a poor training experience with?

I am pretty sure the former special forces people they have apparently signed up as the core instructor group can shoot well, but whether they are able to adapt their military training to teach average (or maybe below average) civilians is something else. I know that it is as much about marketing as anything else, but you really cannot expect the same level of effort from average guys as from military (or LE) personnel being trained by military (or LE) personnel to perform military (or LE) functions.

You do realize that Special Forces personnel are basically instructors, don't you? A huge part of their training is how to teach the skills they have to others running the gamut from educated soldiers from other Western nations to completely uneducated and illiterate people in third world countries. A Special Forces A Team at it's most basic mission is to be inserted behind enemy lines to train arm and equip an indigenous force to support US objectives. Formal training as an instructor including the latest methods and techniques is constant and kept current.

LE firearms instructors have to learn to teach before they are certified. Here in Illinois the Instructor Certification Course is all about teaching, not shooting. It's about diagnosing a shooter's problems and being able to teach the shooter how to correct them.

I would much rather get a "lesser" instructor who can actually teach than spend three days getting yelled at by control freaks who think they are drill sgts teaching raw recruits instead of 60 year old civilians.

What former LE or SF instructor offers this experience? None that I know of. If you have personal experience with this please relate it to us. This completely contradicts my personal experience in the Army, in LE and in the private sector training that I have taken. And it's not the way I have ever taught in the Army, LE or teaching private citizens.

Even Basic Rifle Marksmanship in 1974 wasn't filled with Drill Sergeants screaming at us.
 
I am always a little nervous about LE and former "elite" military personnel being the instructors in these kind of things. ...
Obviously you have no experience to base your unsupported opinion on.

Almost all of the instructors at Gunsite have such background, and my experience there (having taken three classes) has been excellent.

I've also been in classes taught by the late Louis Awerbuck. His early background was in SF in the South African military, and he was Chief Rangemaster at Gunsite until 1987. It would be difficult to imagine either a technically better instructor or a more considerate person.

....I would much rather get a "lesser" instructor who can actually teach than spend three days getting yelled at by control freaks who think they are drill sgts teaching raw recruits instead of 60 year old civilians.
What hogwash. As a card carrying short, fat, old guy I've never been treated like that by any of the many former LE or SF instructors I've been fortunate enough to have taken training from.

Your opinions are apparently more a product of your imagination than your actual experience.
 
people who have not had the enjoyment of attending training from a good instructor often have some weird ideas about how such training is conducted.

And of course there are many different instructors and many different styles of instruction and different courses. One should select a class based on their needs. A private citizen looking for training relevant to carrying concealed in public would select one class, and a SWAT team member looking to increase their skills with the carbine would select a different class, and a USPSA or IDPA shooter looking to improve their competitive performance might be best served selecting yet a different class and instructor.

There are so MANY shooters that never go to any formal training, for many reasons. So shooters would really enjoy the training and shoot well and learn new things if they'd only go, but many people are reluctant to leave their comfort zone and try anything new. And you don't have to spend a ton of money and fly to Arizona to go to Gunsite -- there are lots of regional or traveling instructors around that do a damn good job. It depends on what you can afford and how it fits into the schedule of your life, but many places in the country if you search around you can find a one or two or three day class that would fit your needs.
 
There's a lot of bad blood banging around the NRA instructor pools for the new Carry Guard program, but personally, as an NRA instructor myself, I'm glad to see the new program. While it might never deserve the recognition as a program as Gunsite or FrontSite or Uncle Mas, it's still promises to be a much more relevant program than any of the "traditional" courses.

The BoPS, PPITH/OTH, and DP courses from the NRA are incredibly basic, and incorporate a VERY limited segment for live fire. If the Carry Guard training delivers on what it is claiming, it will be a major advancement for the NRA portfolio.

I will say, I'm sad to see the First Steps courses be discontinued, although I'm not entirely certain I believe I like the fact they're letting us morph the BoPS course into a First-steps-esque program, and not include revolvers if the students all have pistols. Maybe I'm just a hold out, and I think the basics course should include all types, as always.

Of course, one thing which I personally believe is a driving force behind many of the complaints by NRA instructors, is the fact we're all eligible to APPLY to be instructors for NRA-CG. Not many of us will be selected to be instructors, and that rubs the wrong way some instructors who know they'll never make the cut. I don't ever expect to be slated as an NRA Carry Guard instructor, but I'm content to do a couple NRA BoPS courses a year and do as many CC and DP courses as I can fill, plus non-NRA courses and coaching I offer. If they decide that'll earn me a spot as a Carry Guard instructor, then fine, if not, fine. I'm going to take one (or more) of the courses myself - I try to do at least one course each year. If the lesson plan and content all looks good, I'll keep putting myself in as an instructor candidate for NRA-CG.
 
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