Objectives similar to the Leupold VX-3L?

Status
Not open for further replies.

Wylie1

Member
Joined
Mar 6, 2011
Messages
313
Location
Shoshone Idaho U.S.A.
Been a while!
I was handed down a 10/22 target rifle that really wasn't put together properly and I'm looking into what I can do for it. I'm familiar with accurizing and plan to bed the receiver and float the barrel, tinker with torque settings....

What I would like to do is find a scope similar to the Leupold VX-3L as to be able to bring the optical center of the scope closer to the center of the rifles bore without putting out the money the Leupold scope costs.

I know there was a Tasco years ago with a similar objective lens but these types of scopes are pretty rare aren't they?
20190128-163617.jpg
 
The VX-3L series of scopes were discontinued years ago for very good reasons. They don't solve any real problem. Certainly not on a target rifle. In theory they allow bigger front objectives to be mounted low. And even then the only theoretical advantage of a bigger objective is 3-5 minutes of usable shooting time at the beginning and end of the day. But even a 40mm objective is usable for 5-10 minutes before and after legal shooting times. In some countries night shooting is allowed and objectives larger than 40mm can be an advantage. Unless you are planning on target shooting after dark just buy a decent 40mm scope. There are lots of good options in the $200 range.
 
I have a VX-L on my .204. I only got it because it was really a good price

IMO it’s a solution looking for a problem.

I have a VX-3 4-14x40 on my target .22 and I really like it
 
Tasco did have the EXP line of scopes, Ive never used them. Honestly, I wont have a scope on a target (or any realy).22 without an AO or side focus.
 
I have honestly been questioning my VX-3L but I haven't had a chance to get it out for quite a while in order to try and dial squares with it.
It sure doesn't sound as though you folks hold any merit in lowering the optical center of a scope as close to the bores center as possible. I had Talley rings custom milled to lower them .090" for my Tikka T3 Lite, it was doing about 1/2 M.O.A. or better. Not to say I can shoot that well all the time, a buddy of mine did put up a 2.25" group from 400 yards on a pretty windy day with it.

Personally I like the idea of a C cut out of the bottom of a scopes objective, granted sometimes it doesn't serve a purpose if the rings can't be set low enough to take advantage of it.
 
It's looking that way as far as the objective lens goes anyway.
I'm thinking open turrets, ballistic compensating reticle, 50mm objective, 12X, something like a Hawke Vantage with the 80 clicks for stretching out a ways although I'll have to see how this little bugger shots before I get too crazy with glass.
 
I have honestly been questioning my VX-3L but I haven't had a chance to get it out for quite a while in order to try and dial squares with it.
It sure doesn't sound as though you folks hold any merit in lowering the optical center of a scope as close to the bores center as possible. I had Talley rings custom milled to lower them .090" for my Tikka T3 Lite, it was doing about 1/2 M.O.A. or better. Not to say I can shoot that well all the time, a buddy of mine did put up a 2.25" group from 400 yards on a pretty windy day with it.

Personally I like the idea of a C cut out of the bottom of a scopes objective, granted sometimes it doesn't serve a purpose if the rings can't be set low enough to take advantage of it.

Lowering the optics to bore, isnt a bad thing by any means. But imo all it does besides allowing for the correct check weld, is reduce the effects of poor mounting, or canting of the rifle.
 
I just pulled it out of the safe and I couldn't go much lower with the scope just for reasons of the cheek weld.
I'm not understanding the advantage as far as poor scope mounting but okay.

Edit: Looks like I'll be dressing up the end of the muzzle brake on the lathe, has a few scratches.
From what I understand this thing didn't shoot well and I can see why. The previous owner wasn't real gun savvy.
The barrel is canted upward towards the muzzle end as well as pressured from one side in the stock. Relieving material from the barrels bed or raising the receiver looks to be in order.

Lifting the receiver and floating the barrel by receiver bedding looks to be the best route to me although that means the shock will have to be mounted up in the mill and material removed from the bottom behind the trigger.
 
Last edited:
I'm not understanding the advantage as far as poor scope mounting but okay
Same effect as canting the rifle. If the scope reticle isnt parallel to the bore, and you hold the reticle lvl the bore is now out of alignment. The higher the scope the greater the misalignment.....thats my theory anyway
 
i must have had one of the early ones vx-l. i don't recall a 3 in the model number.

in any event, it was a fantastic scope for what i used it for, mounted on a rem700 in 220swift. i thought the glass was good and liked the 1/10MOA knobs for no good reason.

i do like larger objectives because they are brighter. not just at night, but all the time. it helps me see. shadows, or when the sun is on the other side of your target, etc. and just generally picking up details.

so even though i have no use for one now, i'm still a fan.

i will say that for the PRS type shooting i do, I have moved to higher and higher optic mounts so that i can keep my head as upright as possible. so this would be wrong tool for that job. but for flinging rounds into pdog towns, or plinking off a bench or egg shoots etc, i'm still a fan
 
The non-circular, relief cut objective lenses is a problem which thinks it’s a solution looking for a problem.

1) Exit pupil & image brightness: One easy answer to “why is it bad?” is found by asking yourself, why do shooters use larger objective optics in the first place? So let’s run that rabbit trail for a second, shall we? Field of view is one reason - but that’s easy to get, run less magnification. So why? Well, because a particular application needs more magnification - so we run larger objectives to improve not only field of view, but the more important reason is exit pupil. The human pupil has a typical span of 2-7mm, with strain and some change or loss of focus quality across that span - as might be expected, that span will typically reduce as eyes age. Any time the exit pupil of your optic is too small, the image gets dark. You can see this in these 6-24x40mm optics, where the image appears to be the same bright, high quality image until you hit a certain zoom setting and it suddenly starts to darken. Why? Because there’s more and more light coming from around the scope, entering the pupil, as compared to the intensity of light coming from the scope. Jump up to a 50 or 56mm objective and you won’t see that same dramatic darkening with zoom. In the context of these asymmetric Leupold VX-L’s, the “bite out of the cookie” is robbing light from the optic. So even though they have a large diameter, they don’t have as much light entering the optic and subsequently reaching the shooter’s eye. You don’t see that marked transition in brightness with zoom change, but side by side with a non-L scope, they’re not as bright (notably for me), and considering Leupolds aren’t famously bright already, it’s a problem.

2) Does it solve a real problem? - Impact of being closer bore axis on MPBR (aka, the main selling point for this design): we talk all of the time about how important it is to have our optic axis close to the bore axis, but have you ever questioned how much difference it really makes? I ran the numbers on a 5” MPBR just now - if I dropped my 2.2” scope height on my 6 Creed by 1/2” (mind you that would be a 12mm bite out of a 50mm optic), it changes my MPBR by 8 yards... Your optic height goes into your calculator, and we’ve had ballistic calculators for FREE for over 20yrs - that offset is factored into your drop data, and never bothers a shooter, ever. Some of the most accurate rifles in the world are benchmounted rigs, no stocks, which have the optic mounted WAY off of the bore, not even on top of the rifle. Height over bore is largely irrelevant. You simply need to know the height, and gain virtually nothing by shrinking that difference by 1/2”.

3) Cheekweld: Cheekweld is Cheekweld - not all stocks offer an optic height which fit all shooters, and lowering the scope doesn’t change that. For example, any rifle which fits me has my wife struggling to crawl down into the scope, and anything which fits my wife has me struggling to reach up to it. My cheekbone to my eye is very short, so every rifle I own needs a cheek riser. In the past, many more stocks were designed with comb drop to allow iron sights, but most rifles in the last decade are built without irons, and the combs aren’t as low. Lowering scopes might mean older stocks don’t have to reach up as far, but I’d much rather install a proper fitting stock, or a $25 cheek riser than carve a slice out of my expensive optic and sacrifice the light gathering quality I mentioned above.

4) Optic size: dropping the scope even a half inch doesn’t really change much in terms of the major dimensions of the optic, let alone the rifle. A 50mm with a bite wound is still ~60mm diameter, and that bulky side to side. It’s just as long as a standard full circumference optic as well. It just gets to set 1/4”-1/2” lower to the barrel.

5) Real world fit: for several of my sporting rifles, the bolt handle and ocular bell diameter (or power ring diameter) dictate how low my scope can be mounted. Doesn’t matter how big the objective bell might be. On most of my rifles, I am using low or medium rings already. So what space are we really taking back?

6) Distortion: no way around it, the more oddly you shape the lense, the more odd things it will do to your light passing through the optic. Edge effects are one reason you rarely see true 1x optics - light which passed through the edge bevel of your glass does wonky things, so manufacturers zoom slightly so the shooter never actually sees through the edge of the glass. But when you take a substantial bite out of the profile, you’re either throwing distorted image up into the shooter view, OR, you’re throwing a mechanical limiter into the mix so the shooter never sees the bottom edge... Equally, the concave outer profile of the objective bell is a convex internal surface. Despite best efforts to matte black the internals to eliminate internal diffusion, a convex surface diffuses light much more so than a convex surface - overall pulling your image quality down.

7) Mechanical limits vs. image vs. hold over: if you design a scope with a bite wound, but don’t want your shooter to SEE the negative edge effects or the edge profile in the scope, you mechanically limit the erector tube travel to not face the bite. But if you do that, why are you buying that much objective diameter in the first place? Why buy a full diameter, full weight optic which has a limited erector tube travel to never use the full diameter of the objective lense? How much image are you missing which was “seen” by the corners, but not by the shooter? How much elevation capacity are you losing? How much hold over opportunity would you be losing if they removed the mechanical limiter and let you see the bite?

Again - mechanically, these scopes are a problem disguised as an answer to a problem nobody was really asking to solve. Certainly not at the cost of the compromises they bring with it. It’s like the doctor asked you at your annual physical if you had any pain, and you mentioned your left knee kinda hurts when you kneel for too long. So the doctor suggests you cut off your leg and use a prosthetic - because afterall, your knee won’t hurt from kneeling any more if you don’t have a knee.

So in short - asymmetric optics are “rare for good reason”...
 
Now that adjustable combs and or lacing a fanny pack on your stock....have become socially acceptable, the need
for the funky objective scopes is gone.
 
Anyhow, I have the fancy little bugger torn down and cleaned for the receiver bedding now, I still have yet to look at the bedding materials I have.

I have dug a few scopes out from under the reloading desk.

There's a cheap Barska I don't even remember buying, it's a Varmint 6.5-20x50 AO and a Nikon Prostaff 4-12X40 BDC, I don't even have a clue if either will hold zero, one way to find out.
 
I do have some Devcon 10110 but it has thickened up considerably, is there a way to thin this stuff out a bit? If not I'll just go with some JB Weld I have.

As well I've looked into a few things, the chamber could be a bit tighter, I'm without pin gauges so... I'll have to see which cartridges sit closest to the lands, the bolt face has what I'd guess to be .020" slop if not more at the base of the cartridge which isn't including the bolts .010 to .015" side to side movement. Being the spring is off to one side it just looks inherently inaccurate but time will tell I guess.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top