Offhand shooting practice

[Varminterror]

Yeah, I'm in the camp that was trained, "matches are lost on your belly and won on your feet."

It's philosophical, of course - all of the points matter, but NOBODY drops many points on the prone stages, so pooching the prone and sitting/kneeling stages will cost someone a match, but we really can't get ahead of the field there... the whole field shoots well there, so there's no room to take a lead. BUT... Everyone struggles on the offhand stage, so there's a lot more room to stand tall and pick up a lead.

Another way of saying it, "don't #@&% up on your belly, and go kick &%$ on your feet".

 

[MrBorland]

Everyone struggles on the offhand stage, so there's a lot more room to stand tall and pick up a lead.

I will say that when I shot Service Rifle, I spent the majority of my live fire working on 2 things. One was my standing, pretty much for the reasons already outlined. In my mind at the time, dropping a round into the 8-ring (or worse) would be far easier while standing than while sitting or prone, and could easily cost the match, so I worked on it a lot. Looking back, though, I did relatively well standing, and my scores and results reflected that, so it does kinda speak to the idea that matches are won standing. OTOH, things can really go south in a hurry while standing.

(the other thing I really focused on during live fire was dialing (and recording) in my zeros. I shot some prone and sitting, of course, but the biggest benefit there came from dry fire & working on my position. As to my zero, for me, it was a matter of confidence in it - otherwise, even with match-day sighters, I'd be tempted to take what amounts to pot shots, which is never a good strategy. BTDT )

Thanks for all the responses, honestly I wasn’t happy with that group but guess it isn’t too bad.

The Geissele two stage trigger definitely helps, I would be all over the place with a mil-spec one

Definitely not too shabby for just taking a whack at it and using an IDPA target. My bet is they'd shrink some if you used an actual bullseye-type target, since it would give you a more precise aim point. The SR-1 target is designed specifically for standing slow fire at 100 yards.

I have a Geissele two-stage on my Service Rifle and like it.

 

[TimRB]

Which suggests the Standing stage is decisive - the match can be won or lost there.

It somewhat depends on the match. Shooting the 50-shot national match course of fire, offhand is only ten of the fifty rounds fired, while in an 80-shot regional course, one shoots twenty rounds at each stage--offhand, sitting (or kneeling), prone rapid, and prone slow. In either case, prone is proportionally most important.

Offhand is fired first, and it's easy to psych yourself right out of the match if you have a train wreck there. But you never know how the other shooters did, so you have to stay in the game.

Tim

 

[Chief TC]

I am working more on off-hand. I am really good with my 357 carbine but not very good with anything else. I am practicing a lot more with my Sharps 45-70 since silhouette matches require shooting chickens and 200 meters. I am still not very good. I think I am still figuring out the best form and technique for me.

 

[ms6852]

Don't know if you hunt, but shooting off hand really helps since many people that hunt mainly shoot from the bench and than can't understand how they missed on a good buck. I practice a lot of off hand shooting but I use a 22 lr. I like a heavy rifle so I use the Remington 513T or the 52C Winchester. A couple of months before hunting season I practice shooting from port arms to mimic how I carry my 30-30 if hunting in heavy brush. With my 30-06 I use the lowest setting on my 3x9 and shoot it at 200 yards off hand . Standing and kneeling is how I have hunted and taken most of my game.

That is a good group and will get better if you practice, practice, practice , and then practice more.

 

[CapnMac]

Did a few standing unsupported strings at 100y with my AR today with the LPVO set around 3X. Very humbling and the below is my best “group”.

Whether for hunting or training, get your gun off the bench and work on practical skills!

View attachment 1206092

There are scads of flamewarriors out there that would champion the bottom three as their "Wun ainch grupp" and not bother with a photo "kaus theys Moe-Ah."
Position shooting is a thing. And it wants appreciating as a thing.
Realistically only 3 of those are out of the A zone. Which is quite good practical shooting.

 

[Random 8]

Which suggests the Standing stage is decisive - the match can be won or lost there. It's just seems to me most see Standing as their weak stage.

Now you're arguing my side of the point LOL. I guess I was unclear. Varminterror put it more precisely (and colorfully!). Win on your feet, don't lose on your belly IS my philosophy.

 

[MrBorland]

Now you're arguing my side of the point LOL

I was pointing out that Standing scores matter a bunch, so it's worth putting the time in. On that I think we've all agreed. Beyond that, I don't think the semantics matter all that much.

 

[wanderinwalker]

"Matches are won in offhand and lost at 600."

First off, nice shooting by the OP in the first post. That's great offhand performance.
Second, when I was still actively shooting Highpower, I spent the majority of my practice effort on offhand. It's also as much a mental game as a physical one. I'd tell people that we stand and walk on 2 feet all the time, so standing up is the the most natural shooting position on the whole course.

Most shooters would be well served to get a good .22LR rifle and get away from the bench to shoot some offhand, sitting and kneeling at various ranges and targets. It really is a skill that needs to be sharpened regularly. Even better to make it fun shooting at things like empty shotgun shells, golf balls, clay targets, balloons, crackers, playing cards, whatever is appropriate for the shooting location.

And never give up when shooting a match! I cut my first leg points by taking 3rd place with a 469/500 after an absolute disaster offhand. I was saved because everybody else had a rough start at 200 yards that day too. I also cut leg points by placing third at my very last EIC match with a 490/500, with a 96 offhand after dropping an 8. I distinctly remember not cleaning the sitting rapid target, but then cleaning the 300 rapid and having a phenomenal 600 stage, even with another dropped 8.

 

[Peakbagger46]

Thanks all for the feedback. Other than having fun, my personal focus is work and meat hunting purposes.

I’ve kept my work AR one click off from fully collapsed for years since I suck at room clearing with a rifle and want as short as possible. The group picture was shot that way.

I still HATE shooting game offhand and much prefer to either take a knee or a standing Aspen tree rest at any distance.

 

[armoredman]

I think I will take out my AR this weekend and see if I do half as good! I have a milspec trigger, though, and red dot only.

 

[Varminterror]

I still HATE shooting game offhand

I agree.

I was raised to start hunting with a revolver before I could handle the size of a rifle. When I WAS finally tall enough to fit my frame around a youth stock (kinda-ish), it was always from a bipod, a pack, or shooting sticks. As I grew, it never occurred to me that I should compromise my shot integrity by reducing my firing support. So in 35yrs of big game hunting, taking hundreds of game in more than half of our US States and on 3 continents, I’m likely still able to count on both hands (with certainty less than both hands and feet) how many of those shots have been unsupported. It’s just too easy to have or find support which drastically improves our ability to send bullets where we want them, so there isn’t much excuse not to do so. It sounds cliché to say, but we owe it to the animals to deliver the best shots we can, and field deployable or field expedient supports are just too easy.

 

[emb]

If you give it some thought, most hunting shots are some form of offhand-whether you're standing or sitting in a stand. You just have to be able to pick up the rifle and shoot it well without support. Don't get me wrong, if I can find a steady rest of some fashion, I'll use it in a heartbeat. But, a great deal of the time it just isn't there when you need it. A number of years ago we were getting ready for an elk hunt. I was taking a Remington Sendero 300 UM. I actually got pretty good at standing off hand at 100 yds. I was keeping them well within a 6" circle. The kid next to me had the same caliber rifle in a BDL version and was watching me. He told me that I was shooting better standing then he was on the bench. He also wanted to know how I shot without a muzzle break-LOL. I try to keep the skill up with at least one range session a month dedicated to getting off the bench. I didn't take an offhand shot on that hunt. I shot standing but quickly found and used a tree branch fork for support.

 

[Hugger-4641]

My freezer would have been mighty slim some years if I couldn't shoot a deer offhand. But I know my limits. I shoot sillouet at 200m, with my 30-30 and 45c lever gun, but my hit percent on 200yd rams is about 50%. So on live deer 100yds is normally about my max with irons, maybe 150 with a scope. Any further than that there is usually a way to find some kind of cover and support.

 

[Varminterror]

If you give it some thought, most hunting shots are some form of offhand-whether you're standing or sitting in a stand.

As I mentioned above, in 35 years hunting in ~30 states and 3 continents, this is absolutely not true for almost all of the shots I have ever taken on game.

I CAN shoot small offhand, but I prefer to take advantage of the dramatic improvement in performance offered by field expedient or field improvised supports. We owe it to the game we’re hunting to make good shots.

Don't get me wrong, if I can find a steady rest of some fashion, I'll use it in a heartbeat. But, a great deal of the time it just isn't there when you need it.

Personally, I consider this to be poor planning on the part of the hunter.

 

[emb]

Varminterror, we've probably chewed a lot of same dirt over the same number of years. We're going to have to agree to disagree. I have missed shots-cleanly-for a lot of different reasons-even supported by a steady rest. There are 2 types of hunters-those that have missed and those that will. However, I rarely ever miss or shoot game badly. My personal limit for offhand rifle shots is 100 yards or less, and I'm pretty confident in my ability to make those shots. More yardage than that, I agree with you. Additionally, if I have or can quickly find a rest or support to use, kneel, or sit, I will regardless of the yardage. But at times, you just have to pick up the gun and shoot, and I can't think of a single time I've missed game when I was confronted with that scenario. Now, I appreciate that your experiences and preferences may be different than mine, but that does not make mine wrong or unethical. YMMV.