Ok i need help again seating crimping issues

[raddiver]

So in the new LNL i set my dies.

The procedure i used was pretty much what was in the directions. set bullet to oal, back the seating stem out, turn in the die until you get the desired crimp, set die ring, turn seating stem back in until it touches the top of the bullet, set seating stem ring.

Ive set my oal to 1.126 but my oal's on finished bullets vary from 1.124 to 1.34 (the latter being the most common) I just dont get it, and im starting to pull what little hair i have left out.

It may be worth noting that my dummy rounds have no primer but i cant see where that makes any difference in this scenario.

anyway, suggestions appreciated.

 

[lwknight]

Either you are not locking the dies down or not being consistant with the handle.
Another possibility is that the crimp is not enough to hold securely and the bullet is
sticking to the seating punch and pulling back out when you withdraw the case from the die.

 

[zxcvbob]

Or no neck tension.

 

[esheato]

Your post doesn't specify rifle or pistol, but if you're loading rifle cartridges, how are you measuring OAL? From base to tip with calipers? Or are you using a comparator? You SHOULD be using a comparator and measuring from the bullet ogive to base. Bullet tips vary and can cause the issue you're having.

Ed

 

[raddiver]

sorry, its 9mm luger. 115 gr ranier rn.

 

[918v]

9mm bullets vary in profile within the same box, so your OAL variance is "normal". Bullets are mass produced on multiple machines. If you sort these bullets by length and weight, your OAL variance will shrink.

 

[newrugersafan]

Is this the progressive press ? If so are you loading up the shell plate with brass ? I have noticed on mine that the oal varies if the shell plate is not full also make sure your bushings are tight, put a wrench on the flat of the lock ring and snug it down and see if that helps. If the o-ring is not snug it can flex a bit especially if you are using brass from different manufacturers as the bullets seating force varies from case to case.

 

[rfwobbly]

Several reasons....

• newrugersafan is giving you some good info. The mechanical stresses the press "sees" for a single test cartridge, versus being evenly loaded with a full set of brass varies just enough to tilt the shell plate over and cause such variations.

• The way the seater stem interfaces with the bullet will allow that much variation too. Less expensive dies push only on the tip end of the bullet. Your better dies will come with multiple seating stems that you can change out depending upon the type bullet you're loading. You didn't really think they charged more just for the fun of it, did you? Study a complete set of Hornady or Dillon dies sometime. You'll see.

• If you are loading FP bullets using one of these one-type-seating-stem-fits-all die sets, then the variation in the bullet noses will also cause length variations. See the graphic below...



• Lastly the way you operate your press makes a big difference. You should get into a smooth rhythm when pulling/pushing on the operating lever. This is one reason you shouldn't listen to music while reloading. The action of your arm needs to be smooth over the entire stroke, and it needs to be at a constant cadence. If you learned how to operate your press from some YouTube video entitled "Watch how fast I can make bullets" then you are doomed to always have severe OAL variations. As the old saying goes: "Speed, Quality, Cost. Pick any 2." Jerky motions and the wrong seater stem can distort the bullet's nose and thereby the OAL. See the graphic below...



Hope this helps !

 

[Walkalong]

.005 variance with pistol bullets is pretty common. .010 seems a bit much. Check all things for tightness. Maybe polish the seater stem inside. Bottom line is while that .010 variance is not what you would like, it will be OK for anything but serious target ammo.

 

[dagger dog]

rad,

Here's a stab at your problem. Were your dies used to seat lead bullets or are Rainers lead (I've only reloaded jacketed in 9mm)?

If yes make sure your seating die is CLEAN. Wax,lube,or just an accumulation of dirt can cause the problem you're having.

 

[buck460XVR]

I think rfwobbly is on the right track with the profile of the seating stem not matching the profile of your bullets. Even if the length varied with your bullets as 918v suggests, it should only make a difference in seating depth, not OAL. My RCBS handgun dies all came with two different seating stems, one to be used with flat point profiles and one to be used with round nose profiles.

 

[raddiver]

Great stuff here. Thank you.

I just measured all 500 of my Ranier (jacketed and that's all I've done in 9mm, i have a different set of dies for the wife's cast 380 bullets)
The range is huge on these. Obviously there are a couple of one offs, but min to max are:
.534 to a max of .571 the majority are in the .565 and .566 range so they are all now separated in .001 increments .561 - .568 The highs and lows are set aside.
I'm thinking about tossing those.

Ill have to do some checking on the dies. I originally bought the Lyman 9mm dies, then added an RCBS taper die. the RCBS only has 1 seating stem. Maybe the other Lyman is interchangeable. I'll have to check.

I guess since I'm doing all the leg work today, i might as well trim the cases too. I know most don't, but id like to have consistency.

I'll work on the stroke too.

 

[Walkalong]

Trimming 9MM cases is a waste of time, and won't help the varying O.A.L., but if you really have nothing better in this whole wide world to do besides trim 9MM cases, well, have fun.

I just love rfwobbly's drawings. Excellent stuff. As he pointed out, the better your seater stem fits the bullet, the more consistent the O.A.L. can be.

 

[raddiver]

but if you really have nothing better in this whole wide world to do besides trim 9MM cases, well, have fun

Not that i dont have better things to do. It's OCD. I want perfect, but ill settle for pretty damned good.

 

[Walkalong]

Nothing wrong with that.

I am pretty OCD as well, but I can't shoot well enough to show the difference between trimmed and non trimmed 9MM cases. Since I am also a little bit lazy, if my lazy side can't prove to the OCD side that it is helpful, well, lazy wins.


Want to talk prepping 6PPC cases? I can't get them perfect enough. Even when the variance in the length is consistently less than .001 and the neck thickness is within .0001 I still look at all of them with suspicion. Then if a bullet seats ever so slightly different in one, it's toast.

 

[918v]

Great stuff here. Thank you.

I just measured all 500 of my Ranier (jacketed and that's all I've done in 9mm, i have a different set of dies for the wife's cast 380 bullets)
The range is huge on these. Obviously there are a couple of one offs, but min to max are:
.534 to a max of .571 the majority are in the .565 and .566 range so they are all now separated in .001 increments .561 - .568 The highs and lows are set aside.
I'm thinking about tossing those.

Ill have to do some checking on the dies. I originally bought the Lyman 9mm dies, then added an RCBS taper die. the RCBS only has 1 seating stem. Maybe the other Lyman is interchangeable. I'll have to check.

I guess since I'm doing all the leg work today, i might as well trim the cases too. I know most don't, but id like to have consistency.

I'll work on the stroke too.

Don't toss them. Use them for plinking. Save the good ones for load development.

Don't trim the cases unless they are over .750" in length. 9mm cases seldom are.

 

[raddiver]

Don't trim the cases unless they are over .750" in length. 9mm cases seldom are.

Good to know as well.

i know from the few that i measured a few weeks ago, the majority are in the .745 range. Ok so i guess that's out then.

 

[raddiver]

Success

Ok thanks guys.

Im not sure which one of the deals fixed it, but here are the 4 things i changed for someone else's FYI:

1 used length sorted bullets in .001 variance from each other
2 switched out to the lyman seater that grabs the bullet by the side of the cone rather than the top
3 re-adjusted the powder measure (thought it might be hitting full stop on the way up)
4 tried to be as slow and consistent on the downstroke as possible

One of these 4 fixed it.

So thanks for you help.

 

[rcmodel]

All right! That does it!
Your Reloading Guy License is hereby suspended for one week!

By changing four things at once, we will never know what the problem really was!



rc

 

[raddiver]

awww man *kicks the dirt*

I hate being grounded