Old Iver Johnson .32 top break

[PTK]

I just happened upon a fairly good example (sharp rifling, very little cylinder shake when locked up, etc.) of a .32 Iver Johnson top break revolver for $25.

The main issue now is - I know it's .32, but it's not marked as to whether it's .32 S&W or .32 S&W long. How do I go about telling which it is before I pick up dies, brass, and bullets?

If it helps, the cylinder is .935" long.

Also - if it is just .32 S&W, where the heck can I find reloading data? Sierra, Speer, and Nosler manuals are all silent on this cartridge.

I also thought it might help to add what the top of the barrel is marked...

"Iver Johnson's Arms & Cycle Works *"
"*Fitchburg, Mass. U.S.A.*

The SN is 914XX. Anyone know the year?

 

[32 Magnum]

Ij - 32

I'm holding a .32 S&W Long cartridge - it measures 1 1/8" from ledge of rim to nose of bullet. If your cylinder is .935, this cartridge won't fit in it, so you must have a .32 S&W. Don't know about loading data.

 

[Old Fuff]

Free advice is seldom cheap.

I'd be glad to charge...

Iver Johnson made a number of revolver models, both solid-frame and top-break. With a cylinder length of .935" it's safe to say it's chambered in .32 S&W only. There is a book with serial number information, but I'm not where my copy is, so you may have to wait if someone else doesn't come up with what you want to know first. If you can revolve the cylinder when the hammer's down and the trigger's forward you have an "old model," that should probably be restricted to black powder. If you have one where the cylinder is locked it's a "new model," which may or may not be accurate. As an accurate shooter it may not be worth buying a set of dies.

 

[PTK]

It's more because I figure I can buy the fixings to reload many, many cartridges for the cost of a box or two of commercial.

Also - it's hammerless and the cylinder locks. No safety on the trigger, so it's probably post 1940s, right?

 

[marv]

I found .32S&W data in at least 3 of my reloading manuals. Newest book is "Modern Reloading" by Richard Lee. If you can't find it email me and I'll try to scan a page or 2 to you.

 

[mnrivrat]

Be advised that even in good condition these guns were made a long time ago and were the cheap gun of the day.

The metalergy is not up to todays standard and they wear rather quickly. More problematic than that is the springs have a tendancy to break. Particularly the trigger return spring.

My point : Not the type of gun that should be counted on to shoot a lot of rounds through.

 

[Old Fuff]

Also - it's hammerless and the cylinder locks. No safety on the trigger, so it's probably post 1940s, right?

Again, I'm backed into a corner because I don't have the required reference book handy. But I'd say it was made sometime between 1905 to 1940, and possibly earlier. Another clue to a "new model" would be a coil rather then flat mainspring. If it is in good mechanical shape it's probably safe to shoot with standard commercial cartridges or similar handloads.

But I agree with mnrivrat, they tend to break small springs and are not particularly accurate. If you seriously want to shoot something in 32 S&W I suggest you buy a Smith & Wesson.

http://www.armsbid.com/8smithwesson.htm (See lot #1272)

 

[woad_yurt]

Magtech & Winchester sells .32 S&W shorts and they're loaded a bit weaker than the originals. I have a couple of those old .32s and they'll handle the ammo just fine if nothing is wrong with the gun. They're loaded to 85-90 ft/lbs and there's plenty of steel for that in those top breaks. Have the gun checked out for integrity by someone knowledgeable and, if it's good, shoot away.

IMPORTANT: Make sure you hold the top latch up all the way if you unscrew the cylinder to remove it. Aside from holding the gun together, it also keeps the cylinder located. If let the latch down after you start to unscrew that cylinder, the catch will make a spiral scratch all the way around the cylinder as it unscrews.

Look here for loads:
http://www.reloadammo.com

As for accuracy, once you get used to the sights, they're pretty good. Actually, .32 S&W was a popular caliber in target pistol competitions back in the day. And, if you start to reload, the same dies work for .32 shorts, .32 longs and .32 H&R Magnums.

If you want some specific info, there's a guy named Bill Goforth. He's the Iver Johnson guru.
http://www.geocities.com/iverjohnsoncollector/

I'm 99% sure that IJ stopped making the hammerless stuff in 1940, so yours would be pre-war. If yours is what I'm thinking it is, it'd make a good little pocket gun. Don't underestimate those old top breaks. Just ask President McKinley. Post a pic!

 

[PTK]

Old Fuff, that's neat, but the auction took place on the 2nd and 3rd of this month, so I'm guessing those aren't available.

 

[Old Fuff]

Old Fuff, that's neat, but the auction took place on the 2nd and 3rd of this month, so I'm guessing those aren't available.

I know... I posted the link and lot number to show what I was refering to. Incidentally, the referenced revolver sold for $100.00 + $10.00 auction house fee.

If you are considering buying a similar revolver, or just want more information about them and other top-break pocket revolvers, go to this link:

www.armchairgunshow.com

Both it and www.armsbid.com are run by Jim Supica, who is a respected authority on S&W, co-author of Standard Catalog of Smith & Wesson, and a member of The High Road.

 

[Baldy]

I got one my self but it is a family heirloom now and a wall hanger.

 

[dogngun]

CAREFULLY remove the grips. If the main spring is a coil spring, you have a late model, designed for smokeless powder and you can use commercial ammo (Winchester).
If a flat spring, you have an older model that will tolerate smokeless ammo, but will eventually loosen up the revolver-it will NOT explode or disintegrate, but will loosen the works with use.
The "modern" smokeless ammo is designed with the idea that it will be used in older guns and they will tolerate it well enough for occasional use.

I shoot the Winchester.32 S&W in my 1889 Smith New Departure along with several older Smiths with no problems, and I have used the same ammo in several old IJ's and H&R's as well.
If the cylinder does not rotate backwards when the gun is not cocked it is a later gun. Usually, post 1900 guns are considered safe for modern ammo on a regular basis.
Mark