On The Topic of Back Up Guns

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I did carry a CZ82 as a BUG when I was working. Switched to a LCPII and now a SA Hellcat. Primaries are a CZ 97b and a CZ P-01. Do I think I'll need it? NO! IMG_3704.JPG
 
I rarely carry a BUG. My usual CCW is a SAI XD40sc (and if I need a BUG, I carry his brother of which I have just one), or, alternatively, I carry a Colt CCO in .45ACP and have been known to carry a Colt Defender .45ACP as a BUG. If you're gonna carry a Semi-auto BUG, make sure your replacement mags fit the principal carry. YMMV, but they probably shouldn't.

Harry, opinionated old bastard
 
I've carried a BUG at different times. For a while, years ago, when I was in and out of shady industrial areas, and even sketchier truck stops every day, I was carrying two 5" 1911s, one on either side. At other times, I carried a 1911 on one side, with a P32 in the other side hip pocket.

Here lately, though, I rarely carry a BUG. Either a 4" K frame, or a steel commander, plus a couple of reloads.

As I discussed in the thread on "front up guns," i.e., a second gun that might get deployed before the primary, though, I've got a driving holster on order, and if it ever arrives, we'll test out the Model 10 as part time BUG.
 
I'd also like to pick up a hammerless J- frame, or the like, as a coat pocket gun. (Though this year, I think I wore a real coat only a few times, so that may not be the most pressing need. )
 
I like to carry one that uses the same magazines if the reason I need it is the primary failed, was lost or taken. However, it isn't very often I will actually carry a BUG.
Primary CZ P-10C
BUG CZ P-10S.
 
I've only carried a BUG a couple of times. It was a primary of SP101 357 AIWB and Sheild 9 IWB at 3:30. Unless I'm driving through waterfront of the city at 3am to go down to the boat I opt for just the SP. In the highly unlikely event of ever having to draw my weapon combined with it being highly unlikely 5 shots won't be enough, well...sometimes it just isn't your day. However, I totally understand why others don't share my choices.
 
My primary carry is normally a pocket gun, j frame or LCP2. When I carry a second handgun it's more specific to hiking such as my 41 mag Taurus 415 or 357 mag 686+.
 
One of those deep, thought provoking questions. For those of you who carry a BUG (Back Up Gun) in addition to your primary carry; is it the same caliber as your primary carry ? Larger, more effective caliber ? Or smaller caliber ? It's always baffled me (still does) about people carrying BUG's. If I'm gonna carry a BUG to supplement or replace my primary carry in case of unrepairable mechanical issue, lack of ammunition, being forcibly deprived of said main carry, or (continue ad nauseum), I'd want it in at least the same (hopefully ballistically effective) caliber as my primary, if not in an equally effective or *more effective* caliber.

Good Example- primary carry being a... S&W Shield in 9x19mm. BUG being a S&W 640 Pro in .357 Magnum.

Acceptable Example- primary (S&W Shield, 9mm), BUG (Ruger LCR in 9mm)

Bad Example- S&W Shield (9mm), BUG- Beretta 21a Bobcat in .22LR

I can understand the simplicity of slipping a Ruger LCP into a pocket, don't get me wrong... but (perfect world scenario here, you successfully put your entire magazine into a series of textbook CoM shots) if your Shield in 9mm failed to stop that 6'6" 350lb druggie with body armor and a car door for a shield, I fail to see how that little LCP in .380 is gonna do any better.


Disclaimer- nothing wrong with any of the above handguns. Platform was mainly used for ease of familiarity (and Google-ability) and said platform being chambered in a caliber suitable for demonstration.

*Checks to insure proper seal on fire, flame, roasting spit, and grill proof suit*

*Let the flaming commence*

*For the purpose of this post, a Back Up Gun (BUG) is any handgun carried in addition to an individual's primary carry piece (whether open or concealed) for the purpose of "continuing the fight" if the primary carry piece should fail, run dry, or be forcibly taken. *
LOVE your 'flame proofing'.

I taught LEO's for a few decades [ retired now myself ].

And I taught that when you NEED your BUG,you will pray its a LAW rocket .

So that little gun might have to do a job that your primary can no longer do.

Its not going to be target shooting,it will be a real bad SHTF day.

Imagine taking out a pea shooter [ older guys know what they are ] when you wanted a handgrenade.

My average BUG to my G-19 is a S&W 340 or 360,instead of magnums in those VERY light guns ,I carry +p loads.

And a speed strip too,my theory is,if it needs being loaded it might need reloading.
 
LOVE your 'flame proofing'.

I taught LEO's for a few decades [ retired now myself ].

And I taught that when you NEED your BUG,you will pray its a LAW rocket .

So that little gun might have to do a job that your primary can no longer do.

Its not going to be target shooting,it will be a real bad SHTF day.

Imagine taking out a pea shooter [ older guys know what they are ] when you wanted a handgrenade.

My average BUG to my G-19 is a S&W 340 or 360,instead of magnums in those VERY light guns ,I carry +p loads.

And a speed strip too,my theory is,if it needs being loaded it might need reloading.
Exactly. I don't want a Baby Browning as a BUG (as much as I like em). If that S&W Mdl 19 fails to do the job, I want a 640 or .45 Automatic subcompact. Something with some butt behind it.
 
I guess in my mind, the reasons for carrying the pocket size .380 as a backup might be oversimplified. If it gets to the point of needing it, whatever is going on will be up close and personal. Like hands on, rolling on the ground personal.
 
Even if the .45 doesn't expand, it's still putting a .45 caliber hole in someone.
An expanded .380 ACP bullet is slightly larger.

Larger diameter may provide some benefit, but not much. Research tells us that an expanded 9MM that penetrates far enough will do the job.

The bleed rate of a wound is not going to matter at all when one is engaged in close-quarter combat.

The gun writers once put a lot of stock in the alleged effectiveness of bore diameter for "knock down".

I started in handguns around 1960, and as late as fifty years later I really wanted the effectiveness I thought a .45 would provide. All I got for my trouble was more weight and more recoil.

What matters most is what is struck inside the body--not the boom and the whoomph of the gun.

The myth of the Moros led to a lot of oft-repeated exaggerations about the .45.

There is still a lot of that going around.

It is easy to catch, and it takes a while to get over it.
 
An expanded .380 ACP bullet is slightly larger.

Larger diameter may provide some benefit, but not much. Research tells us that an expanded 9MM that penetrates far enough will do the job.

The bleed rate of a wound is not going to matter at all when one is engaged in close-quarter combat.

The gun writers once put a lot of stock in the alleged effectiveness of bore diameter for "knock down".

I started in handguns around 1960, and as late as fifty years later I really wanted the effectiveness I thought a .45 would provide. All I got for my trouble was more weight and more recoil.

What matters most is what is struck inside the body--not the boom and the whoomph of the gun.

The myth of the Moros led to a lot of oft-repeated exaggerations about the .45.

There is still a lot of that going around.

It is easy to catch, and it takes a while to get over it.
I agree with your comments.

BUT [ you knew there was one :)] fact is that a revolver [ wheel gun ] can be used at " muzzle close " distance and not go out of battery.

If your at 'snuggle up' distance with a violent perp and NEED to use your BUG ------- you really want to get all the gasses into that body cavity.

Only a revolver can & will do that if you use contact discharge.
 
Only a revolver can & will do that if you use contact discharge.
I do not recommend an LCP. I said that many officers I have known carry them.

If I were to carry aa BUG, it would be my Kimber K6A.

Loaded with .38 Specials, by the way.
 
Its not a "back up" its my 2nd option™
I cant put my hand on the pistol that I'm carrying IWB without revealing I'm carrying.
There are times where being able to discretely put hand on pistol is desirable - ex: if approached by someone "shady" in parking lot.
2nd option is carried in weak hand front pocket, if dominant hand is unavailable it offers me the option to easily access pistol with weak hand.
I have carried both pistols in same caliber ex: Glock 22 or 23 IWB with either a Kahr PM40 or Shield 40 in pocket, but same caliber is not a priority.
What is a priority is the 2nd option being at least 9mm, if its needed (pocket gun) the reason its needed is probably very close.

Today I had (have) a Glock 20SF IWB and a Kahr PM9 in weak hand pocket.
Yes, I live in a "good" area.
proactive > reactive

I was gonna say that but ya trademarked the dang thing :cuss:
 
i carry a lcpII bug all the time. it resides in my left front pocket, the two spare mags reside in my right front pocket. my primary (carried only occasionally) can be most anything carried owb @ 4:00.

i train with my bug using my left hand (weak) only. training includes mag changes from the right pocket.

if you think 380 auto is weak, then you may want to practice the mozambique drill, or a modified mozambique shooting one to the body and two to the head.

luck,

murf
 
Glock Owners---If you carry a G19(primary) and a G26(BUG) + a G19 mag for a reload---If a "situation" came up and you ran the G19 dry would you
reload or just grab the G26?

Drawing a second gun is faster than any reload in most situations.
 
FWIW most of the officers I worked with at the Sheriff's department carried BUGs. We even had a sign at the facility above the gun lockers that said "Store all duty firearms here. Yes that one too." BUGs were one of two flavors: a backup that used the same mag and same ammo as their primary such as G19 and G26. Or some sort of small J-frame sized revolver, Ruger LCR, sometimes a small Kahr around that size. Camp 1 liked knowing they had ammo for their BUG as long as they were not out. Average officer carried 2-3 spare magazines. Camp 2 liked knowing they had a reliable firearm that would still work with little maintenance. I saw some very dirty BUG revolvers come out of some nasty looking ankle holsters, not pretty for someone who likes clean firearms. One thing that both camps had in common, I never saw a BUG with a manual safety. All of them had bladed trigger safeties (Glock trigger dingus) or long DAO triggers.
 
Its not a "back up" its my 2nd option™
I cant put my hand on the pistol that I'm carrying IWB without revealing I'm carrying.
There are times where being able to discretely put hand on pistol is desirable - ex: if approached by someone "shady" in parking lot.
2nd option is carried in weak hand front pocket, if dominant hand is unavailable it offers me the option to easily access pistol with weak hand.
I have carried both pistols in same caliber ex: Glock 22 or 23 IWB with either a Kahr PM40 or Shield 40 in pocket, but same caliber is not a priority.
What is a priority is the 2nd option being at least 9mm, if its needed (pocket gun) the reason its needed is probably very close.

Today I had (have) a Glock 20SF IWB and a Kahr PM9 in weak hand pocket.
Yes, I live in a "good" area.
proactive > reactive

I exercise this philosophy as well.

I carry at least 2 pistols, and I can reach one with either hand. The Jackals always catch you by surprise and usually while at least one if not both hands are occupied.
 
Hi...
My primary carry gun is a full size Springfield Armory 1911 in .45ACP. My back up is a Colt Combat Commander in .45ACP.
Sometimes I carry both at the same time but that happens rarely.
When I am hiking I generally carry a big bore revolver in .41Mag, .44Mag, .44Spl or .45Colt. I also carry my Combat Commander as well in an IWB holster.
 
I do agree that "any BUG is better than none"... but I'd hate to have the hope that after two mags from a 9mm/.40/.45 service sidearm, with a decent number of rounds on target; that an LCP would "finish the job". If your primary piece is taken or fails ? Certainly. But as a failsafe against ~60 rounds of 9mm not doing the job ? Not hardly. And yes. I know actual "rounds on target vs rounds fired) is especially low. Especially for today's trigger happy "spray and pray" cops.
As you say, guns can be lost or malfunction without all possible rounds being used.

I knew an NYPD officer back in the bad old days who happened to be in the wrong place at the wrong time, then things got worse.

Off duty in a bar in Harlem when it was held up. He got into a gun fight with the perpetrators and got hit in the hand with the gun, the bullet going through his fingers and breaking the mainspring in his 5 shot Chief. Said gun now out of commission. Lucky for him, they picked that time to exit the bar.

He didn't have a backup but I'm sure he would have been glad to have any gun, any caliber at that time.

Perhaps you're a little loose with the "trigger happy spray and pray cops" comment?
 
It’s all just poking holes. I don’t care what the BUG is as long as it goes deeper than 12” in gel and I can get to it with my weak hand.
 
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