Online retailer won't ship to Illinois

[vjramire1]

Yesterday I placed an order for a 15rd Walther PPQ magazine and the order was cancelled because "we cannot shop magazines of this capacity to your state". I called them and told them I live in Elmhurst, IL 60126 which is Du Page county. BTW, I order the same mag a few years back from them with no problems.
Customer service said his list didn't have my zip code listed for restrictions but his boss had a "new" updated list which did include my zip code. New news to me since my town has never had any type of firearm restrictions! Can't find anything on the internet with my zip code ever having restrictions either.
Even so, my understanding is that Illinois State laws 430 ILCS 66/90 Preemption, makes local laws null and void (at least for hand guns magazine restrictions). I get an email back from them with this reply:

"Policies have been enacted at Grab A Gun in response to ever-changing state and local laws on firearm legality and high capacity regulations. Overzealous regulatory litigation in these restricted areas has led Grab A Gun to institute a policy that if a state (or any county/city within a state) has ammunition, "assault weapon," or high capacity magazine restrictions, we will not ship these items to that state under any circumstances (including to FFL dealers and law enforcement officers). "

So what the anti-gunners have tried to to with legislation, they have done so successfully with GrabAGun, who is now limiting distribution to legally owning, responsible firearm owners, who by state and federal laws actually allow for lawful possession!

I was quite disappointed GrabAGun won't stand for our rights and have been effectively "scared" away by legislation. Nothing I can do except share this with everyone. I wonder if this is going to start being more common?

-Vincent

 

[milemaker13]

Vince-
I'm down the road in Lombard. Never ordered from grab a gun but other places like PSA for example will ship to me in dupage, but not my buddy in Schaumburg (cook county).

Its a sad day when retailers block an entire state due to one county's regulations. And I believe you are correct about the preemption... addison and others had total handgun bans until CC was passed.

 

[Fine Figure of a Man]

I would direct my disappointment and anger at my state and local politicians rather than retailers that don't want to deal with the hassle and risk of navigating Illinois state and local laws.
Welcome to THR

 

[milemaker13]

Oh yeah.. welcome to THR!

 

[George P]

Magazines are cheap; them having to hire some lawyers are not.

 

[vjramire1]

I guess my point of contention is that if all 3 local, state, and federal laws allow me to possess, why ban the entire state? No lawyers needed. Anyway, thank you for the warm welcome! Glad to be part of this community!

 

[Neo-Luddite]

This will come up ever more frequently. Once you've made a decent and polite effort at providing the seller with correct information on current IL laws (with links to sites for reference as needed) if they still balk at selling write them off and move on! I deal with AIM Surplus, J & G and Midway quite often and they have been 100% helpful to me despite where I live. I imagine that if future restrictions (such as ammo registry) are enacted they will do what they can to keep our business. Don't waste your time on those who are actually enabling those who seek to erode our rights here in Illinois by making up their own "laws" that are in fact more restrictive that anything yet enacted.

 

[AlexanderA]

"Policies have been enacted at Grab A Gun in response to ever-changing state and local laws on firearm legality and high capacity regulations. Overzealous regulatory litigation in these restricted areas has led Grab A Gun to institute a policy that if a state (or any county/city within a state) has ammunition, "assault weapon," or high capacity magazine restrictions, we will not ship these items to that state under any circumstances (including to FFL dealers and law enforcement officers). "

So what the anti-gunners have tried to to with legislation, they have done so successfully with GrabAGun, who is now limiting distribution to legally owning, responsible firearm owners, who by state and federal laws actually allow for lawful possession!

The idea behind this is "collective guilt," or "collective punishment." It's like in the army, when a recruit screws up in training, the whole platoon might be punished (have their leave cancelled, etc.). This is unjust for the individuals , but serves a higher purpose. Peer pressure will force the miscreant into line better than any punishment meted out to him individually.

Some enterprises think they can apply this same philosophy to their customer base. Boycotts like this never work in a commercial (or in a political) setting. All they do is add to polarization.

 

[Gridley]

The idea behind this is "collective guilt," or "collective punishment." It's like in the army, when a recruit screws up in training, the whole platoon might be punished (have their leave cancelled, etc.). This is unjust for the individuals , but serves a higher purpose. Peer pressure will force the miscreant into line better than any punishment meted out to him individually.

Some enterprises think they can apply this same philosophy to their customer base. Boycotts like this never work in a commercial (or in a political) setting. All they do is add to polarization.

Looking at the phrasing of the note, that was my guess too. The tactic *might* be valid if law enforcement in the state was, or was expected to be, a major customer (Dear Local Government: if you ban your citizens from having nice things, your enforcers can't either). I believe Barrett did this, rather better, in refusing to sell to LA SWAT after some level of government above them banned civilian sales.

 

[tarosean]

I would direct my disappointment and anger at my state and local politicians rather than retailers that don't want to deal with the hassle and risk of navigating Illinois state and local laws.

this

 

[Armored farmer]

I would direct my disappointment and anger at my state and local politicians rather than retailers that don't want to deal with the hassle and risk of navigating Illinois state and local laws.
Welcome to THR

this

Yeah, we keep sending them our money. They keep sending us their laws.
There has been rallies near home about the rest of Illinois seceding from Chicago.
Cabelas refused to ship a 1860 pietta to me.

 

[Speedo66]

There will eventually be a market shakedown over this. The smarter retailers will do their due diligence and get the sales from the others who stick their heads in the sand and ban entire states.

AIM has a new section where they list current laws for all states and locals, they encourage you to peruse them before you place an order. Very good marketing on their part. If it's at all legal to do so, they will sell to you regardless of where you are.

I suggest we do the same. If someone in a difficult state wants to buy something from you, check AIM's site and determine if it's legal before you cross an entire state off. Don't be complicit in boycotting people in CA, NY, etc. and doing the work for the antis.

 

[Neo-Luddite]

There will eventually be a market shakedown over this. The smarter retailers will do their due diligence and get the sales from the others who stick their heads in the sand and ban entire states.

AIM has a new section where they list current laws for all states and locals, they encourage you to peruse them before you place an order. Very good marketing on their part. If it's at all legal to do so, they will sell to you regardless of where you are.

AIM has always gone above-and-beyond for customer service and they've earned my loyalty as my first go-to online seller. Even when they suffered that data breach some years back, they immediately took steps to fix the problem and provided a year of Life-Lock Identity Theft Protection at their expense before I could even ask what steps they were taking.

 

[Gridley]

Given the relative sizes of the LE and civilian markets in the US, if I were a manufacturer I might consider refusing to sell to any government agency in a jurisdiction that had banned any of my products for civil sale. Good PR, loss of minor market share. Toss in a small discount for cops purchasing products for their individual use.

Distributor networks might make that hard to follow through with, of course.

 

[AlexanderA]

I would direct my disappointment and anger at my state and local politicians rather than retailers

That is exactly what Grab a Gun wants its Illinois customers to do. The company is miscalculating the amount of clout that gun owners have in Illinois. The lawmakers who are enacting these magazine bans won't listen to them no matter how loudly they scream. As a result of this misguided policy, both the company and its customers lose. The antigunners happily go on their merry way.

 

[vjramire1]

I forgot to add to my original post that another online retailer, Impact Guns, was happy to take the business and legally ship the magazine to me. I should see it in a few days.

 

[Fine Figure of a Man]

The company is miscalculating the amount of clout that gun owners have in Illinois. The lawmakers who are enacting these magazine bans won't listen to them no matter how loudly they scream.

So you're saying Illinois gun owners have no clout?

Impact Guns, was happy to take the business and legally ship the magazine to me.

There you go, the power of the free market.

 

[D.B. Cooper]

withdrawn

 

[milemaker13]

No, I think hes saying grab a gun is screwing itself by cutting off all of IL.
What a dumb misguided thing for a firearm retailer to do .
I only hope this doesnt start a big trend whereas any company willing to ship to IL can raise/ gouge the prices. " ship to IL service fee" or some such nonsense.

 

[D.B. Cooper]

If it makes you feel any better, Grab A Gun will not ship 9 round magazines to Alaska. In fact, they will not ship anything to Alaska.

 

[rb288]

Simple, don't buy anything from Grab a Gun.
If others are willing to ship to you, then patronize those that will, not those that won't.
They are not making a statement, they are only hurting their own sales.

 

[Theohazard]

OP, I think your frustration at Grab-a-gun is misguided. This doesn’t appear to be a political move like Dick’s banning sales to anyone under 21, this seems like Grab-a-gun doesn’t have time to keep figuring out the constantly changing local gun laws in certain states, so they instituted this policy to pretect themselves from accidentally sending a customer items that are illegal in their locality.

Sometimes I run into a similar situation at my job. At the shop where I work I can sell a long gun to an out-of-state resident providing the gun and transaction are both legal in their state. There are several states I know are gun-unfriendly but I don’t know much of the details of their specific laws. Under most circumstances I wouldn’t sell to a resident of that state even if it’s possible the gun is actually legal there. Am I making a political statement like Dick’s? No, I just don’t have the time to learn the details of each state’s gun laws and I don’t want to accidentally break any laws if I get it wrong.

 

[BSA1]

Sometimes I run into a similar situation at my job. At the shop where I work I can sell a long gun to an out-of-state resident providing the gun and transaction are both legal in their state. There are several states I know are gun-unfriendly but I don’t know much of the details of their specific laws. Under most circumstances I wouldn’t sell to a resident of that state even if it’s possible the gun is actually legal there.

I don't follow your reason.

Why risk selling anything to a out-of-state customer?

Magazines that hold more than 10 rounds are illegal in some States. So, for example, by selling 15 round pistol magazines to a California resident you are enabling them to break California State Law.

I am curious about this the gun must be legal in their home state idea in order to make the sale.

 

[FlSwampRat]

I would direct my disappointment and anger at my state and local politicians rather than retailers that don't want to deal with the hassle and risk of navigating Illinois state and local laws.

We sell online both through our company website as well as GB, etc. We don't ship anything firearm related to NY, NJ, CT, CA, etc. Not worth the headache to us, sorry if you live in those places.

 

[milemaker13]

I don't follow your reason.

Why risk selling anything to a out-of-state customer?

Cuz its his job? But I think its a little different for a salesman behind a counter vs a large online company. Have someone do the research and make many more sales vs risk irritating the internet tribes and causing sales to collapse by driving customers to other companies. If the sale was big enough I'd imagine our friend Theo may just look up the specific laws pertaining to that sale.