Quantcast

Online retailer won't ship to Illinois

Discussion in 'Legal' started by vjramire1, Mar 13, 2019.

  1. 01KLR650

    01KLR650 Member

    Joined:
    Jun 9, 2018
    Messages:
    8
    I think the problem is that a very small slice of Elmhurst is in Cook County and some retailers don't bother to sort it out.

    A couple of years ago my FFL told me that Bud's wouldn't ship firearms with large-cap mags to Elmhurst because of this. I think Bud's has updated their IL ZIP code database since then to recognize that most of Elmhurst is DuPage, not Cook.

    Makes me miss living in Ohio...
     
    sigarms228 and milemaker13 like this.
  2. alfsauve

    alfsauve Member

    Joined:
    Jan 30, 2008
    Messages:
    427
    Location:
    N. GA
    One would think NSSF might maintain a prohibited list for dealers to make it easier for them to stay out of trouble.
     
  3. kheeka

    kheeka Member

    Joined:
    Mar 29, 2018
    Messages:
    26
    Actually they ARE making a statement. Loud and clear.
     
  4. Fine Figure of a Man

    Fine Figure of a Man Member

    Joined:
    Jun 11, 2011
    Messages:
    2,659
    Location:
    Iowa
    More likely it is just this;
     
    FlSwampRat and Theohazard like this.
  5. Theohazard

    Theohazard Member

    Joined:
    Feb 24, 2014
    Messages:
    1,554
    Location:
    Western PA
    I assume you’re referring to my personal example of selling a long gun to an out-of-state resident? If so, I’ll explain: If an FFL dealer transfers a long gun to someone from out of state and that firearm isn’t legal in that person’s state, then that transfer is illegal under federal law.

    So if a dealer wants to avoid breaking federal law and they’re unsure of the laws in the buyer’s home state, they can either take the time to research that state’s firearm laws or they can just deny the sale. I’ve done both. And the times when I denied the sale I didn’t do it for political reasons, I did it because I didn’t want to break federal law out of ignorance.

    I’m thinking that Grab-a-gun denied the sale to the OP’s zip code for a similar reason: They can’t keep track of all the zip codes where certain things are illegal, so they make it simple and just go by state. After all, there are only 65 states and territories in the US to keep track of, but there are 41,693 zip codes.
     
    Last edited: Mar 14, 2019
  6. TomJ
    • Contributing Member

    TomJ Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Jul 3, 2014
    Messages:
    1,547
    Location:
    Illinois
    I'm in Elmhurst also, and had the same experience with Grab A Gun. They accepted my order and sent a confirmation, and later sent another e-mail rejecting my order and refunding my payment. I spoke with them to explain the magazine was legal where I live, but they wouldn't ship it. I understand the state is responsible for this situation, but it's unfortunate that companies in our industry are piling on. I ordered it from another source and won't bother with Grab A Gun again. Not because I'm upset with them, they certainly have the right to make their own policies, but because I don't want to go through the headaches of placing an order, receiving a confirmation which leads me to believe the order has been accepted just to find out they rejected it.
     
    vjramire1, heyjoe and milemaker13 like this.
  7. AlexanderA
    • Contributing Member

    AlexanderA Member

    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2011
    Messages:
    5,109
    Location:
    Virginia
    Exactly. They are boycotting Illinois (for political reasons). Instead, they themselves are ending up being boycotted. This is delicious irony.
     
    Neo-Luddite and vjramire1 like this.
  8. alfsauve

    alfsauve Member

    Joined:
    Jan 30, 2008
    Messages:
    427
    Location:
    N. GA
    This issue also a concern when you're selling something on a forum.

    I sold 4 FNAR 20 round magazines recently and tried to say plainly if you're from a restricted local don't even PM me with a request.
     
    Fine Figure of a Man likes this.
  9. AlexanderA
    • Contributing Member

    AlexanderA Member

    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2011
    Messages:
    5,109
    Location:
    Virginia
    Federal law addresses the interstate sale of firearms, not accessories (such as magazines). If a magazine is illegal in the customer's jurisdiction, the onus would be on the customer for breaking the law. That state couldn't touch the seller in another state, unless the seller had a physical presence in the customer's state. The situation is analogous to collecting sales tax on out-of-state sales. Sometimes gun dealers are overzealous in complying with laws.
     
  10. shoobe01

    shoobe01 Member

    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2004
    Messages:
    694
    Location:
    Kansas City
    What lots of them said above, complex. No single data source.

    And, note they said "your ZIP code" is on the list of no-go. Probably not a mistake, but true. ZIP codes are entirely for the convenience of the USPS delivery etc. They have zero to do with other borders.

    Have professionally encountered this as a problem use of data when they cross to a state where not allowed, cross a time zone, etc. But that's the baseline for retailers as they used to care only about shipping. It will be a hell of a lot of work to switch to some other location tracking even IF such a service existed, to integrate to their eCommerce stuff. That, times 9 million, for every retailer to handle it.


    Many currently "solve" this problem by going to the next level up, and you cannot get things like magazines shipped to "Illinois" at all.
     
  11. Theohazard

    Theohazard Member

    Joined:
    Feb 24, 2014
    Messages:
    1,554
    Location:
    Western PA
    Agreed, but there still probably is a potential liability for a seller, which is why most won’t sell firearm acccessories to states or localities where that accessory is illegal.

    It looks like Grab-a-gun doesn’t want the liability of selling items that are prohibited in the buyer’s state, and they don’t feel like having to track 40,000+ zip codes in the US and instead just break it down by state. If that simplifies their business enough that it helps their bottom line, then that’s a good business decision. If it stops enough sales that it hurts the bottom line, then that’s a bad business decision. But I can’t see how anyone can know they’re doing it for political reasons simply from the information provided by the OP.
     
    shoobe01 likes this.
  12. Fine Figure of a Man

    Fine Figure of a Man Member

    Joined:
    Jun 11, 2011
    Messages:
    2,659
    Location:
    Iowa
    And you weren't boycotting anyone or any place, just covering your own butt.

    That doesn't mean there won't be legal costs and consequences for the retailer. High risk for little reward, some will take it some won't and that is what happened in this case.
     
    Theohazard likes this.
  13. D.B. Cooper

    D.B. Cooper Member

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2016
    Messages:
    1,203
    Location:
    Alaska
    This whole concept is pretty stupid. Because all of this appears to be based on zip codes, what is to stop someone in Elmhurst (or Chicago for that matter) from simply obtaining a PO Box at a UPS store and having their evil high cap mags delivered there?
     
  14. FlSwampRat

    FlSwampRat Member

    Joined:
    Feb 1, 2019
    Messages:
    104
    Location:
    Broward County, Fl
    There are places here in Fla that have one zip code covering multiple municipalities. If one of those municipalities outlaws, let's say polymer lowers, and the neighboring municipality doesn't, but they share a zip code.
    For a seller, it's just easier to say no thank you. For the slight margin of online sales it's just not worth it to research every law applying to every locale. As said above, take it up with your legislators, it was the people in your area that put them in place.
     
  15. AlexanderA
    • Contributing Member

    AlexanderA Member

    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2011
    Messages:
    5,109
    Location:
    Virginia
    There is a predisposition among the firearms community to comply with any law, even if the downside is minimal. This is why shouts of "WILL NOT COMPLY!!" ring so hollow. If antigun legislation is passed, most gun owners will fall all over themselves to obey, to the letter. And the ones that don't will be branded as nutcases on this and other forums. Sad but true.
     
  16. BSA1

    BSA1 Member

    Joined:
    Apr 20, 2011
    Messages:
    6,531
    Location:
    West of the Big Muddy, East of the Rockies and Nor
    What guns and States are you refusing to sell long guns to?

    State and local laws vary a lot. Why risk selling to any out-of-state resident?

    Want to bet 10 - 20 years in ClubFed on that argument?

    Yep.

    Knowingly selling a item such as a high capacity magazine that is illegal in the buyer's State of residence is trafficking in contraband or in Fed talk violating the commerce laws.

    Small dealer selling a magazine or two to a California (or N.Y or Jersey, etc.) isn't going to get any attention from the Feds...

    unless that magazine(s) are used in a high profile crime.

    As a small dealer where do you draw the line how many magazines to sell a California, et. al, resident? One, ten, hundred, thousand?
     
  17. Speedo66

    Speedo66 Member

    Joined:
    May 31, 2008
    Messages:
    4,609
    Location:
    Flatlandistan
    Unless it's a Federal law, which magazine prohibitions aren't, the Feds are not going to go after you. However, if a person you sell to does something stupid with it, and a plaintiff's lawyer can trace an illegal sale back to you, you can bet he or she will attempt to go after you.
     
    AlexanderA likes this.
  18. AlexanderA
    • Contributing Member

    AlexanderA Member

    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2011
    Messages:
    5,109
    Location:
    Virginia
    How is it a federal crime to ship magazines to a ban state?
    Can you cite the specific federal penal provision?
     
  19. shoobe01

    shoobe01 Member

    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2004
    Messages:
    694
    Location:
    Kansas City
    Increasing number of stores won't ship to PO boxes. Sometimes, I gather, for this sort of reason.
     
  20. AlexanderA
    • Contributing Member

    AlexanderA Member

    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2011
    Messages:
    5,109
    Location:
    Virginia
    Not shipping to P.O. boxes is a general problem, and doesn't apply just to gun-related things. Mostly, it's just the sellers being lazy. They have their shipping arrangements with UPS or FedEx, and don't want to bother dealing with the Post Office. Ironically, UPS and FedEx do accept shipments to P.O. boxes, but they turn the shipments over to the Post Office for "last mile" delivery. From the customer's point of view, this just delays and complicates the whole process. I would say that 10% of sellers on ebay refuse to ship to P.O. boxes. It drives me nuts when I encounter this. If given an alternative, I would prefer to shop elsewhere.

    I maintain a P.O. box for security of deliveries. If something is delivered to my home address, it's just left on the doorstep and anyone could just walk off with it. That's unacceptable to me, and is the reason I prefer to have things sent to my P.O. box. Nothing at all nefarious about this.
     
    shoobe01 likes this.
  21. D.B. Cooper

    D.B. Cooper Member

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2016
    Messages:
    1,203
    Location:
    Alaska
    That's why I stated "UPS Store." UPS stores have a physical address with employees who will sign for, accept, and secure your delivery. To an online seller or to UPS/FedEx/USPS, they are just delivering to any other place of business.
     
    shoobe01 likes this.
  22. sigarms228

    sigarms228 Member

    Joined:
    Aug 3, 2011
    Messages:
    1,003
    Location:
    Northern Illinois
    Yes this is the problem being the zip code is partly in Cook County. GAG and others just want no part of running afoul of a state/local law and the consequences that could result. I can't say I blame them.
     
  23. Speedo66

    Speedo66 Member

    Joined:
    May 31, 2008
    Messages:
    4,609
    Location:
    Flatlandistan
  24. AlexanderA
    • Contributing Member

    AlexanderA Member

    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2011
    Messages:
    5,109
    Location:
    Virginia
    Actually, the post office (USPS) has a similar service, where it provides a physical address to box holders. The idea is that packages are not "red flagged" as going to P.O. Boxes. Which means that it makes even less sense for shippers to embargo P.O. Boxes.
     
    D.B. Cooper and shoobe01 like this.
  25. dh1633pm

    dh1633pm Member

    Joined:
    Apr 28, 2009
    Messages:
    1,769
    Location:
    Central New York
    Your prerogative, but those of us in Anti Gun states need firearms and related products too. I find it frustrating when I am refused something that is completely legal in the state. Say like a single shot rifle. Should I be punished for the liberal gun control laws that don't effect the item being sold. I can't just pick up and move, although I would like too. Just like the person posting who can't get a mag that is perfectly legal in his area, but can't because people will not sell to him.
     
  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
    Dismiss Notice