Opinion on Clays

[coondogger]

What do you guys think about using Clays for .38 spl plinking? Hodgdon's data indicates a starting load of 3.51 gr and Lee's manual indicates a starting load of 3.6. Both are a little over 1600 (CUP) for pressure and throw the bullet around mid-900s fps.

The amount of powder is considerably less than the other recipes call for, which means less margin for error in measuring since a grain or two over or under would be a larger percentage of the total.

Any other recommendations for powders for this round, using a smaller bullet?

 

[Jack B.]

What bullet are you using?

 

[coondogger]

125 gr jacketed.

 

[George P]

I have used Clays successfully with 158 LSWC; along with Unique, Universal, Bullseye...................(you get the picture). Clays is a very uniform and clean-burning powder

 

[Jack B.]

I'm not sure about your Hodgdon data. The only Hodgdon data I have for 38 spl. 125gr. jacketed bullet (XTP) and 3.5 gr. of Clays(starting load) reads, vel. at 843 and pressure at 12,400 CUP. Sorry I don't have Lee data to compare. The Hodgdon data I'm referencing is from their web site, Reloading Data Center and their 2019 Annual Manual. That sounds like a good plinking load. I use bullseye mostly but any fast powder starting load would do nicely. Just depends what you can get your hands on what you like. There are a bunch of recipe's for 38 spl. plinking loads to be found.

 

[Walkalong]

125 gr jacketed.

It will work very well for a jacketed bullet. It is very fast, so work up in .1 increments. It will also work well for a plated 125. I assume it would also work for lead, but haven't tried it.

 

[dave333]

For very soft plinking loads its hard to beat clays. Its accurate and clean too, just cant get into the higher velocity loads with it.

 

[coondogger]

Universal (referred to as Universal Clays in the Lee manual) also seems like a good middle of the road pwder for this. Burn rate not too fast, nor too slow.

 

[George P]

Universal was created as a cleaner burning alternative to Unique and load data is SIMILAR (NOT the same)

 

[rsrocket1]

The original Clays is akin to Red Dot and makes a fine low recoil plinking load for 158g at 2.7-3.0g. For the lighter 125g bullets, it will still be fine up to 3.5g in a 38 special. Of course in a .357, you could go much higher but a slower powder would be more appropriate. You could easily go down to 3.0g and still get the bullet to exit the gun but it will be a really light load at around 800 fps from a 4" barrel gun (Ruger Service Six wit 124g cast bullets in my case)

 

[bluetopper]

Clays is clean burning, and accurate and I've experimented with it a lot in "years past" in a few calibers. Just be very careful not to put too much. It's very unforgiving and pressure spikes in a hurry. I'm much more comfortable with many other powders that do the same thing.

 

[Walkalong]

January 2009, 65 Degrees, 3.9 Grs Clays, Zero 125 Gr JHP @ 1.415 OAL, WSP Primer.

Hi=882
Lo=832
Avg=861
ES=50
SD=19

Decent, not great.

Hodgdon's online data show a regular pressure max of 3.9 grs Clays with a 125 Gr XTP @ 1.455.

They don't show a +P load with Clays.


February 2009, ? Degrees, 4.0 Grs Clays, Powerbond 125 Gr HP @ 1.435 OAL, WSP Primer.

Hi=958
Lo=922
Avg=942
ES=36
SD=14

Three Stars, very accurate.

Most likely over standard .38 Spl pressures. Work up carefully.

 

[sparkyv]

X

Universal (referred to as Universal Clays in the Lee manual) also seems like a good middle of the road pwder for this. Burn rate not too fast, nor too slow.

I've been confused by this before. There are three Hodgdon "Clays" powders; Clays, International, and Universal. Is the OP referring to Universal?

 

[bluetopper]

I've been confused by this before. There are three Hodgdon "Clays" powders; Clays, International, and Universal. Is the OP referring to Universal?

No, he's asking about Clays.

 

[George P]

January 2009, 65 Degrees, 3.9 Grs Clays, Zero 125 Gr JHP @ 1.415 OAL, WSP Primer.

Hi=882
Lo=832
Avg=861
ES=50
SD=19

Decent, not great.

Hodgdon's online data show a regular pressure max of 3.9 grs Clays with a 125 Gr XTP @ 1.455.

They don't show a +P load with Clays.


February 2009, ? Degrees, 4.0 Grs Clays, Powerbond 125 Gr HP @ 1.435 OAL, WSP Primer.

Hi=958
Lo=922
Avg=942
ES=36
SD=14

Three Stars, very accurate.

Most likely over standard .38 Spl pressures. Work up carefully.

Except that is date from the old Clays made in Australia; the new stuff is made under license in Canada and is different

 

[George P]

No, he's asking about Clays.

ORIGINALLY, they were called "Clays", "Universal Clays", and "International Clays". To avoid confusion, CLAYS was dropped from the Universal and International name

 

[Walkalong]

Except that is date from the old Clays made in Australia; the new stuff is made under license in Canada and is different

Interesting, but the current online data still shows 3.9 Grs max with a 125 Gr XTP.

As always, start low and work up.

 

[slickracer]

I load 3.2 Clays for 130, 148 & 158 lead bullets in .38 Special. Works great for plinking loads and plenty accurate with wadcutters.

 

[coondogger]

I decided to use Universal (nee Universal Clays) for a powder. For a 125 jacketed bullet, most recipes call for between 4.5 and 4.7 for a starting load. I use the Lee dippers with a business card and a .5 dipper loads 4.6 gr unfailingly, which is what I'll use. Makes life easier.

 

[cheygriz]

Tried Clays. Didn't like it at all.

 

[CoalTrain49]

I'm using a fast shotgun powder in both 38 spl and 357 cases. It isn't Clays, it's American Select, but the load data is similar judging from the above statements. I'm also using 125 and 158 coated lead bullets. Works just fine and burns clean.

Here's a conversation about Clays/38 spl on another forum that may be helpful.

https://forums.brianenos.com/topic/89909-clays-in-the-38-spl/

 

[Walkalong]

it's American Select,

Which is good stuff, and the new Sport Pistol is supposed to be very similar in burn rate. It seems to be good stuff as well, so far.

 

[PapaG]

I have loaded pounds and pounds in 45 Colt for CAS but nothing in 38. I bought it for trap loads but was underwhelmed with the performance.

 

[George P]

Clays is great with 1oz shotgun 12 gauge loads

 

[J-Bar]

You can’t swing a cat at a cowboy action match without hitting several competitors who use Clays in their .38 Specials!

Hodgdon lists a range of Clays loads for the usual .38 bullet weights. Im kinda anal about shooting small groups so I tested my guns (Ruger Vaqueros) and got the best groups at the top end of the loading chart. Cowboy action loads cannot exceed 1000 fps in revolvers, but for plinking why would you want to?

You can get good plinking loads with just a smidgeon of Clays so it will be very economical to shoot.