Owens "SpyderWood" Trainers

[JShirley]

The Spyderco Delica and Endura have been in the top 4 Spyderco sellers since Spyderco introduced them in 1990. With the introduction of the Endura and Delica 4 - with skeletonized steel liners, 4-way clips and all-screw construction- about two years ago, they're even better than ever, light, strong, versatile, and now available flat ground in several handle colors. I have a ZDP-189 Delica, and my girlfriend has a flat ground purple. Spyderco offers Delica and Endura "drones" that are unsharpened. These are useful for some training, but are still too thin for real, reasonably safe force on force training. So I asked Sam for some trainers.

Form: these are absolutely beautiful, as all the work Sam does tends to be. I'm not certain what wood he used, but it's gorgeous. Outer dimensions (outline) are almost identical. I'd call them 98% or better. Thickness is 95mm on the Delica and 103mm on the Endura, compared to 2.5mm on the Delica Drone, and 3mm on the Endura. This is thicker than on the live versions, but I'll talk about this more in a minute.

Weight: Delica 4 ZDP: 2.5 oz. Owens DelicaWood: 1.6oz. EnduraWood: 2.5oz.

 

[JShirley]

Function: I mentioned the thickness difference. There is also a difference in feeling. The problem with making a trainer is making it close enough to the live tool that there is a muscle memory advantage, while making it different enough to be safe. These trainers feel a little different, but the differences are primarily in a lack of sharp edges. The thumb serrations, for instance, may be useful on the real Delica, but on a trainer, they will make you bleed in short order. The thickness is similar. While slightly thicker than the live Endura and Delica, the additional thickness adds strength to the wooden trainers, while also making accidental injury (especially when the blades are covered with a PVC foam and duct tape sleeve) much less likely.

I like them. The only sharp(ish) edges I find are two that entirely result from Sam trying to mimic the profile of the Endura perhaps too much.* In this case, the top sharper edge- the tip of the blade- can perhaps be changed a bit, sacrificing looks for even more safety. I hope Sam continues to make trainers, and look forward to seeing more of his work.

*In fairness, this is my fault for not asking for a completely rounded tip.

 

[conw]

John,

That is some nice woodwork. In the vein of constructive criticism, I feel if you are going to train with a folder, you need to work on deployment first and foremost which is where the drones by Spyderco excel. You need to practice accessing a folder from a clinch if you carry a folder. I like NOK Knives for really stabbing people hard in training scenarios but of course they don't fold. I feel you could still really hurt someone with the wood knives or spyderco drones, if you stabbed hard.

Also did you mean 10mm thick, rather than 103mm thick? That'd mean about 4 inches.

 

[JShirley]

Hmph. That'll teach me to have someone else measure for me! I'll check it this afternoon. But .4" does make more sense!

I agree deployment needs to be practiced a LOT. Wooden knives should have their "blades" covered with a padded training sleeve for full-speed training.

 

[Sam1911]

Wow, John! Thanks for the glowing review!

The wood is actually a mystery to me as well. That was a special piece I've been saving for "something" for a few years. The block was incredibly heavy/dense, but I couldn't identify it. Now that I've cut into it, I STILL don't know what it is. Some dense, resinous, dark-toned hardwood -- but not any of the common eastern hardwoods or fruit woods. It has an amazing smell, too. I first thought it was Olive, as that's the only thing I've ever worked with that worked and felt similar, but the coloring is too dark. (And why would I find a piece of Olive wood in an old PA dairy barn?)

Anyway, I figured it would be just fine to make a special pair of drones out of.

The only sharp(ish) edges I find are two that entirely result from Sam trying to mimic the profile of the Endura perhaps too much.* In this case, the top sharper edge- the tip of the blade- can perhaps be changed a bit, sacrificing looks for even more safety. I hope Sam continues to make trainers, and look forward to seeing more of his work.

*In fairness, this is my fault for not asking for a completely rounded tip.

That was a "well-duh" moment for me -- the afternoon after I mailed them! I focused on following the silhouette as closely as possible and got a little tunnel-visioned about it. Later on I was thinking about it again and it struck me that the tips were too "screw-driver" profiled and should probably have been rounded for more safety.

(I'll be more than happy to correct that if you want to send them back to me.)

I had made one that I narrowed the blade on to make the details more similar to the original, but I abandoned that idea as it seemed the wood would be weaker at that point without any practical benefit to the training mission.

...

If those are satisfactory (with the mentioned adjustments) I'll direct some effort to other material choices as well (micarta, most likely), and I'll certainly work on the protective sleeves.

Thanks again for the review!

 

[hso]

Aluminum makes for great trainers. For screw mounted blades, as opposed to pinned, you can just make the blade of rounded AL and then switch the blade out of the actual handle for a folder.

 

[JShirley]

I like the concept of an unsharpened blade for manipulation training, but not for force on force.

Sam, I think perhaps changing the blade profile to be much wider may be the answer.

 

[Owen Sparks]

Many years ago I attended a martial arts class where we simulated knife fighting using magic markers and old T-shirts. The idea is that any ink on the shirt would show where you would have been stabbed.

BAD IDEA.

Several people got permanently "tattooed" and one young man had the web of his hand on the thumb side ripped open and had to have stitches. Good thing no one caught one in the eye socket! Simulated knives are safe for static defenses such as someone holding a knife to your throat but for dynamic interaction we now use 8" lengths of foam rubber dipped in water soluble finger paint and stay completely away from the face.

 

[conw]

Owen Sparks - you could also get FIST helmets.

 

[JShirley]

I've done a good bit of training with padded wooden weapons. No injuries suffered or seen except bruises. Eye pro GOOD.

 

[hso]

Simulated knives are safe for static defenses such as someone holding a knife to your throat but for dynamic interaction we now use 8" lengths of foam rubber dipped in water soluble finger paint and stay completely away from the face.

I've attended dozens of days of knife training over the years using bare wooden, aluminum, rubber and even steel training knives as well as foam edged and wrapped metal training knives. I've seen/experienced plenty of bruising and abrasions but I have never seen or had anyone recount the type of injuries you've described. I can see how it might happen, but I would expect it to be as rare as your single case against the scores of days of training I've participated in.

Soft foam trainers just don't give the feedback of something with a little more rigidity.

The ones I hated the most were the steel and aluminum trainers. You can train all morning long with the adrenaline flowing, but break for lunch and let the pain set in and you don't wan't to get near each other the rest of the day. Kinda an important lesson.

I'll second the importance of safety goggles. Even with the face off limits it is too easy to stick a finger in someone's eye when training at speed.

 

[Owen Sparks]

The Tansu system of self defense focuses primarily on stabbing rather than slashing as pocket folders generally don’t have enough mass to slash effectively.
We all know how unpleasant it is to get punched in the body with bare knuckles right?
A person holding a wooden knife or even a magic marker can get excited under the stress of training and really hurt his partner with a straight stab as all the force of a punch is concentrated on the tip. One former student caught a “stab” in the bend of his elbow twenty years ago and to this day he has a permanent green spot there from the markers ink.