Paging Dhart ( or anyone with S&W M60 & M65 knowledge )

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So………I go bananas ogling at Dhart’s pics of his model 65 and model 13 three inchers. Very nice. But where does the model 60 fit in?? The 60 is, I believe, a ‘J’ frame. Is the 65 also a J frame ( or a K frame )? What are the major differences?

Thanks!
 
Here is what I can tell you for certain--the 65 and 13 are K frames, six shot, .357 magnums.

Here is what I'm fairly certain of (I'm sure someone will correct any errors!)
The Model 60 is a J frame, five shot, .38 special. It is the stainless version of the Model 36 Chief's Special. (I think).
 
Oh....

Are there any stainless 'J' frames chambered in .357mag? I'm not interested in the Scandiums & such - Gimme stainless!
 
The 13/65 is a K frame fixed sight 6 shooter, and the 60 is a J frame 5 shooter in either a fixed sight or Target sight.
I have a 13 3" and 65 3" (that is getting a 4" pencil barrel) and a 60-4 3" with target sights.

Major differences is 5 vs 6 shots and the grip size.

The J frames have a coil spring mainspring which tends to stack were the K frame has a leaf spring and gives it a real nice trigger pull.
 
The current Model 60 is a stainless 5-shot .357 Magnum with a three-inch barrel built on the smaller "J" frame. It comes with rubber grips (Uncle Mike's?) as standard.

Older Model 60's were only chambered in .38 Special. I believe wood grips were standard. The switch to .357 was made within about the last 10 years.

The Model 65 is a stainless .357 on the medium sized "K" frame. It holds six shots. Four inch barrels are most common, but three-inch barrels can be found. It is currently only made in the "LadySmith" version with an 3" barrel and an underlug. This version will probably leave production soon as S&W is phasing out the "K" frame .357's.

Personally, I think the Model 65 is a much better gun then the Model 60. The M-65 is a little bigger and I believe is easier to shoot. The lockwork of the "K" frames allows for a better trigger then the smalle "J" frame guns. It also holds one more round then the smaller "J" frame guns.

The only reason I'd carry a five-shot "J" frame is if I wen't with the 2" barrel in deep concealment. If you're going to carry a 3" barrel, you might as well go with the Model 65 instead.
 
The M-65 is a little bigger and I believe is easier to shoot.

I think that's right. Unless you have small hands, there's too little gun and too much palm and finger -- at least for me -- for optimal shooting control and comfort, even with target-level loads.

If you want adjustable sights, the Model 66 is essentially identical to the Model 65.
 
Sorry to be so late to jump in... I just saw the post a couple of minutes ago... (been spending nearly all my time in the S&W forum).

http://www.smith-wessonforum.com/

Anyway... I think the question has been well answered. But I will offer my viewpoint on the J's, K's, L's and Rugers.

My J-frames include an early model 60 and a more recent 642. Personally, the only configuration of a J that really makes sense to me are the models with sealed, internal hammers. These guns are belly/pocket guns and little more. The gun to take when you can't take anything bigger. Of them all, I would speculate that most experienced belly-gun guns might single out the 642 as about the ideal pocket J-frame. The larger and heavier 640 is a great gun and the only other J-frame that makes sense to me.

Given the choice, I would take a K-frame (13, 65, 19, 66) over any J-frame in a heartbeat for feel, controllability, capacity, comfort, accuracy, and trigger.

BUT, there are times when the size of a K prohibits me from packing, in which case I slip my 642 into a front jeans pocket or coat pocket. This light, little gun is amazing in terms of how easy it is to have with you, comfortably. And since it's hammer is completely sealed inside the butter-smooth lines of the gun, you can even hold the gun in your hand ready to shoot while inside a coat pocket - comforting when walking through high-risk areas without revealing that you are armed and can fire instantly, even through a coat pocket if absolutely necessary.

Shrouded hammer models are a decent second choice for a pocket gun, but the open top of the hammer shroud allows dirt, lint, etc. to settle down in the gun and can be a little bit of a pain to clean out...just not as elegant as the internal hammer models.

Remember, though, that the 642 is a gun which is great to carry, but kinda sucks to shoot with (as compared to K's or other larger guns). It's a gun to have if you need it and hope you don't have to shoot it. It may surprise a new owner to find how difficult it is to shoot such a gun quickly and accurately double action (any defense situation will require double action shooting; cocking the hammer just aint gonna happen!)... much practice is needed to really hit well beyond just a few feet! Part of that is due to the relatively heavy double action pull, made less sweet by the coil-design vs. the leaf-design hammer spring in all the larger Smith & Wessons. This is a gun, however, that there is no excuse not to have with you no matter how light you dress.

If you can wear an inner waistband holster (IWB), then I would step up to a 640 which is a bit larger and a fair bit heavier, but more comfortable shoot. It's still just a J-frame, though, holding 5-rounds. The Ruger SP-101 is in the same league as the 640. I have an SP-101 3" and it's a great gun. Both the SP's and the 640 are great guns, but neither quite as concealable or comfortable to carry as the 642.

For the most part, a concealed carry revolver is at it's best with an internal hammer or a bobbed hammer and fixed sights. This makes producing the gun from concealment very slick and snag-free. And in a typical defense scenario, there's no need for hammer spurs or adjustable sights.

The next step up would be the S&W K-frames: 13/19/65/66, etc. (Ruger offers no guns in this size category as the Ruger GP line is a bit larger and comparable in size to S&W's L-frame guns, the 581/586/681/686 etc.)

Sadly, S&W offers little in the way of K-frame .357 models anymore... at present just the LadySmith, as far as I know. If you want a 13/19/65/66, look to the used market. For a defense revolver, these guns are really in the sweet spot for size, weight, power, feel, accuracy. There is no trigger quite like the trigger in a S&W and it's surprising how accurate these guns are with the fixed sights.

Smith & Wesson Model 65-5 .357 Magnum 3" barrel
SW65.jpg

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Smith & Wesson Model 13-3 .357 Magnum 3" barrel
SW13.jpg


Of course for hunting or serious target competiton, you would choose larger guns with adjustable sights.

As I've said elsewhere, my most favorite revolvers are those with fixed sights and 3" barrels. Among models that meet this criteria are Rugers wonderful GP-100. I happen to have a blue steel and a stainless steel GP-100 with 3" barrel and fixed sights. These guns are about the same size and weight as a S&W L-frame. Here's my stainless model... and it's a fantastic carry/nightstand/home/car/RV defense gun... superb. The GP line is very comfortable to shoot potent .357 rounds with and will stand up to heavy loads quite well indeed.

Ruger GP-100 3" Barrel, Fixed sights, .357 magnum (KGPF-331)
KGPF331Rsm.jpg


KGPF331Lsm.jpg


I will soon acquire a fairly rare S&W, a model 686 CS-1. It's a 686 with 3" barrel and round butt issued to the US Customs Service. When the Custom Service "upgraded" to bottom feeders, these sweet revolvers came onto the used market. Can't wait to pick mine up!

Another project of mine is a S&W 681 4" (basically a 686 with fixed sights). I've found a new 3" 686 barrel at the S&W Performance Center which they will install on my 681 to make a 3" 681. I will then converted the square butt to round butt... this will make a very, very sweet defense revolver indeed.

I offer nothing about Taurus because I have no interest nor knowledge in them. From what I've read, they make good quality, lower priced guns these days, though probably not quite in the league with S&W and Ruger. I'm sure Taurus guns will do the job very well indeed, but they just don't appeal to me.

Personally I can find everything I desire in used S&W and new/used Ruger guns. I buy only used S&W guns because I just don't like the internal locks in the new ones, though the new ones are great guns. And you can expect Rugers to have such locks on all their guns in the not too distant future.

Be safe, shoot often and well, enjoy!
 
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