Passing Case Gauge After Sizing; Some Not After Bullets Seated

[otisrush]

Context: 9mm; RCBS Rock Chucker Single Stage; 124gr RN Zero Bullets Bullet

I had a "learning" today that I don't fully understand and would value people's opinion and expertise.

I put every case through a case gauge after sizing. My thought is that I just want to be sure early in the case prep process that the sizing was done right and that the case is holding the size. After sizing if a case fails the case gauge I toss it. I don't use the case gauge nor plunk anything after this step in my process. I've loaded and shot about 1,000 rounds this way and haven't had any issues.

I was charging and seating bullets this morning and by chance noticed this round after bullet seating. Clearly I didn't put the bullet on straight enough and the die wasn't able to correct it. When I run my fingernail over the case I can feel the bump from the base of the bullet. Heck - you can see it! I figured it wouldn't make it through the case gauge - and it didn't.

Based on that I decided to run all 100 rounds from the batch through the case gauge and about 6 didn't pass. I plunked those six in the barrel and they "basically" passed. I say "basically" because they didn't initially just fall out of the barrel. The gun needs a cleaning. And when I tried them a 2nd time they fell out. The bottom line is those 6 I think are fine. But the one pictured did not plunk.

So once your dies are set up (i.e. using plunk to ensure COL is correct) what do people do with with case gauges and/or barrel to check rounds - if anything - as part of your normal production process? Do you rely on visual inspection to catch the scenario seen below? Do you case gauge or plunk every finished round? Something else?

Thanks!

 

[Walkalong]

Well, I'll admit I only gauge the 9MM cases after sizing, and not loading, but have had no problems. Obviously there can be. To be absolutely 100% sure you need to check each loaded round. For play rounds at the range I don't do that, and I only gauge 9MM brass because of my tight chambered EMP in 9MM. I don't check any other pistol brass at all.

If you are playing pistol games like IDPA etc, and want to be 100% sure your rounds will fit, you can either use the Lee FCD, or gauge all the rounds after loading. Some do it one way and some the other. Evidently the FCD does a good job of squeezing over sized rounds to fit. I wonder if it would for my EMP, as it is near the base where brass gets stuck in the chamber. Either way, I am still going to gauge all my sized brass, scrap those that don't pass the Wilson gauge (I know if they pass the gauge they will fit my EMP's chamber), then load normally.

 

[LiveLife]

Below picture shows Winchester 115 gr FMJ tilted during seating to bulge the case neck on one side.

Picture below shows more careful setting of the bullet on case mouth and seating with Lee seating die/round seating stem resulted in more uniform bulging around the bullet to show good neck tension.

 

[nettlle]

If you look closely at factory ammo it has this bump also. Take some mics and mic a loaded factory round verses your finished reloads and see what you get.

 

[cfullgraf]

Pull the barrel out of your pistol and use it as a case gauge, aka "plunk test".

I get the bulge in some of my 9x19 cases. The necks do vary in thickness from manufacturer to manufacturer. Apparently, all of my 9x19 firearms have generous chambers as I do not have chambering problems.

The only FCD die that I have is for 38 Special. A few of my 38 Special cases have slightly thicker case necks and when loaded with 148 WC, they will not chamber. Instead of pulling the bullets, I just run them through the FCD, the case and bullet are scwooged down a bit and problem solved.

i have no idea what it does for accuracy, if at all, but as already said, cartridges run through the FCD should chamber no problem.

 

[LiveLife]

I think tilting of the bullet during seating is a preventable problem (proper flare, more careful setting of bullet, seating of bullet, proper seating stem, etc.) and prevention is better than "fixing" with a FCD.

As cfullgraf posted, as long as they feed/fully chamber in your barrel/pistol, you should be fine. If they fail to fully chamber in the barrel, you can still "fix" them with the FCD.

 

[GJSchulze]

I gauge every round after it is completed. I don't understand why anyone would test a round before that. Depending on the headstamp some cases are more prone to bulging after a bullet is seated. Also, if it isnt crimped properly it might not fit the gauge. To gauge it only after resizing is to ignore most reasons why it won't gauge.

I have always sorted my 9mm cases by headstamp, which is how I discovered that certain HS's are prone to bulging, as well as primers sticking while depriming and bullets falling off during seating. These cases I use when I know I'm shooting somewhere where I'm not likely to recover them.

Finished rounds happened often enough that I bought a Lee Factory Crimp Die. Even then, I occasionally have a tight fit. Case gauges are made to SAAMI standard, but most chambers are slightly bigger, if it gauges it will fit.

 

[otisrush]

From this morning's session 7 shells out of 100 did not pass the case gauge test. 6 of those plunked ok. Per GJSchulze's comment - the gauge is tighter than my chamber. So I'm confident if it passes the gauge then there is no issue.

The seventh is the one in the picture. It failed the case gauge and it failed plunking.

I case gauge sized rounds so that I don't waste time prepping and priming cases that are out of spec from the get-go. I didn't think it was necessary to THEN gauge completed rounds. But based on my experience today I may need to amend that process.

Given how this round turned out tilted - is that an indication I may want to expand the mouth a bit more?

OR

 

[GJSchulze]

Given how this round turned out tilted - is that an indication I may want to expand the mouth a bit more

Is the tilt evident because the round is straight on one side and bulged on the other? I have a Hornady seating die and it has a collar that fits over the bullet as it seats it, so I almost always get a straight bullet. The times I don't it's because the bullet was wildly tilted and I didn't see it until too late. If your seating die doesn't have that, then I guess it would be important to set it straight. I don't know if more belling would do that. I also have a bullet feeder and that may make for more consistency.

BYW, I use 147 gr bullets, so there's a greater chance of a bulge because it gets seated deeper, as would a 124 gr over a 115 gr and a HP over a non-HP. Still, that's more bulge than I ever usually see. Some HS's average heavier than others, meaning a slightly thicker, and therefore stiffer, wall. This affects OAL, too.

Do you use a progressive or single stage? I ask because I don't see the time saved by testing the case before loading worthwhile if using a progressive. Also, it would slow the whole process down by stopping after a resize. I suppose if you're using a single stage you don't lose as much time, but that still doesn't negate my contention that there are other reasons why a round will not fit the gauge. Even when everything is OK, a slight burr or a single kernel of powder will prevent the round from fitting flush. I use a little spray lube on my cases, so a build up of that causes me to have to clean the gauge every so often. I just use the same brass cleaning brush I do for my barrel.

 

[MEHavey]

Without knowing anything else (so I may be wrong), the seating die is not ensuring the bullet
is straight when entering the case. That's a function of the seating stem cavity design, and
can be "fixed" by changing the cavity shape.

- Using paste wax, coat the nose/body of the best loaded cartridge you have, put it into the press, and raise the ram all the way up. (No die yet)
- Clean the inside of the die body and wax it with a paste wax (Or Imperial sizing wax if you have.)
- Run it down into the press until it contacts the cartridge and back off a 1/2 turn. Lock it, and remove the seating stem.
- Clean the seating stem's cavity thoroughly with alcohol to get rid of all grease/wax.
- Put a small "dab" of JB-Weld in the cavity -- no more that 1/4 full or the epoxy will overflow.
- Screw stem back into the press until it contacts the cartridge nose firmly, no more.
- Walk away for a couple of hours.

- Pull the ram down; remove the cartridge; remove the seating stem and sandpaper off any ragged edges of the JB-Weld.

- Reassemble seating die as before. Done

 

[otisrush]

I use a single stage press. I would guess ~60% of the time the bullets really "snap" into place when I place them. The other times they're either noticeably off (i.e. not pointing straight up) and I correct it. But when that occurs I clearly only use a visual cue to see if the bullet is aligned closely enough.

Maybe if the mouth was opened up a smidgen more I'd get a greater "snap in" rate.

 

[gamestalker]

I guess if I was shooting competitively I might indulge the use of a case gauge, but I don't. My only gauge is the barrel, and it hasn't failed me yet, but then I only have several decades under my belt. I can honestly attest to having never experienced a single issue with any reloads functioning in a normal and reliable fashion since I started reloading.

As for your crooked bullet, it clearly appears to out of whack. I don't hardly ever see this when I load.

I use two methods to seat bullets, both have worked well.

First, I do what few reloaders do, I trim all my brass, including 9mm and .40 cal.. Why do I trim? Aside from the fact that there is a SAAMI spec, of which I take very literal, Trimming makes the mouth consistent in height all the way around. If the mouth is the same height all the way around it's circumference, I think it helps the bullet to start and seat straight. The bullet starts with equal and simultaneous contact, so it can't get pushed to one side as easily while entering the mouth.

And since I trim, I must ream and chamfer. The chamfer of the inside of the mouth actually allows me to seat jacketed bullets without belling. And evidenced and easily observed, considering the bullet will actually set right up straight on top of the unbelled case mouth. By seating in this manner it's also unnecessary to apply any crimp, and neck tension / set back concerns are almost never experienced, outside of the unavoidable thin piece of brass that's exceeded it's life span.

Although I almost always seat without belling, there are times when I will bell the case mouth a smidgen, but I still start with a trimmed piece of brass, that's been a constant in my process since the beginning. In the beginning, I always belled and crimped though. But when the .40 cal. was introduced, the only die's I had at the moment were dedicated 10mm dies, which wouldn't reach the case mouths of .40 cal to bell. Impatient, and not wanting to wait for dies, I learned to eliminate belling by implementing a slight chamfer, and it has been the cats meow for me with jacketed bullets since, all jacketed bullets. Someone here once stated that this process also worked with cast and plated, don't know though, I only load with jacketed.

So there you have it.

GS

 

[otisrush]

Do you check every loaded round in your barrel?

I'm really trying to ask about what people do for volume production - not checking fie setup. I get my barrel out when setting up dies and I understand why that is more important than a gauge. And I get it that a barrel is a gauge and as a result a gauge isn't needed. But I'd like to know if people check every round. It's easier for me to use a gauge in that scenario simply because I don't need to open my safe and break down my pistol for every loading session.

 

[higgite]

Do you check every loaded round in your barrel?

I'm really trying to ask about what people do for volume production - not checking fie setup.

I check every finished 9mm round in a Wilson Pistol Max gauge. If it passes the gauge, it will fit any of my pistols. I know this from having cross checked them enough to be confident of it.

I used to gauge sized cases before loading them, but found that to be a waste of time. So few finished rounds fail the gauge test that it's much faster to remedy those few than it is to gauge each and every sized case before loading. ymmv

 

[MEHavey]

Out of curiosity (since we had this same discussion w/ another poster),

- Are you expanding the case after sizing ? (The other poster was not)
- Are you flaring the mouth enough/to where the bullet gets a clean starting alignment ?

 

[Ironicaintit]

The only time I gauge prior to building the cartridge, is for example on some 357 I just built. They had been run really hot, and (appeared to) have a bulge near the rim, out of reach of the sizing die. Those I checked before wasting a primer.
I always, always check every round in a gauge or chamber before they go into my stores. Because even if its built for plinking...I dont presume to know which bullet it'll be, that may get called into serious service.

Anyways... The only time Ive had projectiles that bulged to one side, or appeared canted...was with some 380s when I was still a newb to this, and I didnt have enough bell. It doesnt take much, but it does take a little to get good consistent results. I bell enough that it may seat 1/16th" or so by hand, and if I pull it back out, it'll make an audible pop

 

[otisrush]

Out of curiosity (since we had this same discussion w/ another poster),

- Are you expanding the case after sizing ? (The other poster was not)
- Are you flaring the mouth enough/to where the bullet gets a clean starting alignment ?

Yes - I am expanding the mouth after sizing.

I don't know if I'm flaring it enough. I'm kind of thinking I'm not. I think I'll adjust it to flare a tad bit more.

 

[gamestalker]

Once I get my dies adjusted correctly, I find no reason to chamber check the rounds. If everything is set up correctly and has been confirmed with the initial chamber check during die set up and adjustment, I see no reason to check any others, and have never experienced problems.

GS

 

[Drail]

One of the great advantages of the Lyman M step die is that the bullet will sit straight in the case and cannot tilt when seating it. Once you try the Lyman M step you'll never use any other flare die. The round shown in the OP's photo can also be caused by a very slight misalignment of the die and the ram. I have had to return a couple of brand new presses that were out of alignment.

 

[cfullgraf]

I don't know if I'm flaring it enough. I'm kind of thinking I'm not. I think I'll adjust it to flare a tad bit more.

For handgun cases, I set my mouth flare where you can set the bullet on top of the case, just see the entire width of the case mouth around the bullet but the bullet really does not sit down in the case. Hope that makes sense.

Chamfering the case mouth to take the inside edge off the case mouth also helps make seating the bullet easier. If you do not regularly trim your handgun brass, this is a one time thing.

Too much flare over works the brass as it is flared and crimped over successive loadings and shortens case life. Eventually, you will get splits in the case mouth.

Finally, for your information, I find jacketed bullets can tolerate a bit less flare than cast or swaged bullets. Besides the .001" or so diameter difference, the jacket is harder than the bare lead and is less likely to be shaved by the case mouth while the bullet is being seated.

 

[MEHavey]

Normally, jacketed bullets don't need much flare. But given your problem
(and the seating stem cavity shape may be part of it -- see Post#10), try
the "lead bullet" flare standard as see if it solves the issue:

If after flaring, the bullet should enter the case about a dime's thickness
before becoming hard to move further, that's about right.

then taper crimp the mouth back to spec diameter (0.380-0.381)

 

[otisrush]

I'm a bit reluctant due to my overall skills to be messing with a procedure like described in post #10.

I placed a bullet on a flared case and used a sharpie to draw on the mouth/bullet border. When I took off the bullet it is seating much less than a dime's height into the mouth. I'm definitely going to expand the mouth a bit more.

I also think my bullet placement technique is bad. I start by putting one edge of the bullet base deep in the mouth and then try to snap it in place. With a wider mouth I'm hoping I can place/push the bullet in place.

Thanks!

 

[MEHavey]

Just eyeball the dime depth. (Eyes are pretty good)
But don't try to 'snap' it into place.
Just hold it square w/ your thumb/forefinger as it enters the die mouth.
The die will keep it aligned from that point on.

 

[murf]

otisrush,

do you still have that seventh round that failed the plunk test?

murf