Pawn Shop Blues

[kBob]

SO my daughter is taking a HS finance class and the teacher wanted them to go to a pawn shop and actually haggle. I thought she might get some cheap jewelry or something but she ended up with an Alto Sax and I with a hole in my wallet. She paid me back later, but I had seen a steel framed Colt 49 five shot I wanted to look at. Even though I explained I was fresh out of cash the owner happy over unloading a musical intrament let me look anyway.

the word Marco was on the front left side of the frame and on the Butt was EIG Italy and the date code was XXV Everything about it was nice it was tight on all chambers and the nipples un battered. the steel frame had plenty of color case hardening left some one had used the screw driver from heck to take it down with a few times though. It amazed me the gun could look and feel so un buggered and have such nasty screws.......and then..... some one had appearently sodered (I think) a ramp front blade that was remarkably high out near the muzzle.

Made me want to cry.

I will say it made for a nicer sight picture than a Colt bead or cone.....but man was it ugly on that 1849 design.

SO I assume it was a Armi San Marco but then I saw that EIG on the butt. Any idea what it was?

I rather doubt it would be worth buying and hoping I could find an un marred barrel that might fit.

Just thought I might share the sadness.

-kBob

 

[Crawdad1]

Saul Eig, an importer back in the 60's.

"EIG Cutlery was the first importer of a historically accurate Schneider & Glassick replica. It was sold as an “1851 Navy with a brass frame”. Saul Eig was the founder of this company, thus EIG as an importer name. EIG Cutlery imported goods from several different countries and is best known for the knives they had produced. The EIG revolvers bear a manufacturer’s logo that cannot be identified. They also imported a nice, fully engraved model as well. The earliest date of manufacture is around 1963. EIG became involved in a law suit and they closed up shop, selling all replica revolver inventories to FIE, also of Florida . Thus this “GB” manufacturer’s logo may also be found on some of their revolvers."

On the EIG there should be a manufacturers mark of 'GLB' that cannot be identified or is otherwise unknown.

 

[Ephraim Kibbey]

So this pawnshop Colt 49 was made by Armi San Marco of Italy, proofed in 1969 and imported by EIG of Florida!

The GLB logo on some EIG imports is still not definitively identified but early ASM shotguns bear a Griffin with GB (the initials of ASM's founder) as seen in this ad:

 

[Crawdad1]

kBob just assumed it was made by ASM, but probably has the GLB mark on it somewhere.

 

[Malachi Leviticus Blue]

So this pawnshop Colt 49 was made by Armi San Marco of Italy, proofed in 1969 and imported by EIG of Florida!...

Armi San Marco did use the mark "MARCO" on the side of the revolver frame for for a while.
Most importers back then were getting their C&B revolvers from multiple sources, and many of those sources came and went.
While many EIG imports bear the "Mysterious" GLB logo of a forgotten manufacturer, it should be no surprise that the OP's example was made by Armi San Marco.

I would say Ephraim's assessment is spot on!

 

[kBob]

Thanks guys.

I may make them a low offer after explaining that the sights are otherwise a deal breaker and hope that maybe the barrel assembly from my brass "FIE" '49 will interchange. IF not, well it will likely be a shooter or maybe tradable.

-kBob

 

[44 Dave]

Thanks guys.

I may make them a low offer after explaining that the sights are otherwise a deal breaker and hope that maybe the barrel assembly from my brass "FIE" '49 will interchange. IF not, well it will likely be a shooter or maybe tradable.

-kBob

The solder will most likely come off in a self cleaning oven , but there might be a better way.

 

[Ephraim Kibbey]

Armi San Marco products have been marked:

with nothing (early Replica Arms El Paso) but recognizable by design peculiarities
Marco on the frame
Marco on the cylinder in an oval cartouche
S. Marco on the cylinder in an oval cartouche
S. Marco on the frame or barrel (sometimes hidden under the loading lever)
San Marco on the barrel (sometimes hidden under the loading lever)
Armi San Marco on the barrel (sometimes hidden under the loading lever)
SM on the barrel (sometimes hidden under the loading lever)
ASM on the barrel (sometimes hidden under the loading lever)
ASM in a pyramid with the letters interlocking on the bottom of the frame in front of the trigger guard
ASM in a pyramid now on the right side of the frame as pictured in another post below

I have several ASM original boxes and an ASM 1964 catalog with the Griffin and GB (Guiseppe Buffoli) logo but I do not own any of their shotguns with that early marking and I have never seen any of their Black Powder replicas with that marking.

Ringo (Woodlander on THR) has researched the GLB logo and has purposed that it stands for Luciano Giacosa of Brescia, Italy.
His ideas are explained here (you may need the translator function on your browser: )
http://repliquesoldwest.superforum.fr/t9905-giacosa-luciano-brescia-glb

 

[Crawdad1]

Good detective work Ephraim!!!

For those that do not have Google Translate.

"A single Italian gunsmith whose name corresponds to the initials, and who also provided arms to two successive American importers (EIG and FIE) who massively distributed weapons bearing this logo. One can reasonably conclude at the correspondence, Luciano Giacosa, gunsmith in Brescia, can therefore be identified with the holder of the GLB logo."

 

[ontarget]

If the price was right I would buy it anyway. I have a soft spot for ugly duckling bubba jobs. I can rebubba them without feeling bad about hacking up a good gun.

 

[Ephraim Kibbey]

I just found a new ASM marking or rather, a known marking in a new location:

This is the ASM pyramid logo but on the left front side of a brass frame!
http://www.gunbroker.com/item/717440646

 

[Gaucho Gringo]

This is one that has me bugged for the last 16 years. I have an 1851 Colt reproduction. On top of the barrel it is marked Euroams of America. On the right side next the rammer the barrel is marked ASM Black Powder only. From what I have always read was that ASP became Euroarms. It wouldn't seem logical to me to sell your competitors product. I realize that Euromarms of America is just an importing and distribution company but it still seems odd to me. Is there something I am missing here? BTW is is a very nice revolver with CCH frame and tight lockup.

It looks to be 1993 or 94 dated. Out of all the BP revolvers I own this is only that all the other markings are on the bottom of the receiver and barrel in front of the trigger guard and it is crowded. Really clean looking as far as markings. not plastered all over the gun like so many others I own or have owned. The only one you would really notice is the Euroarms of America on top of the barrel and even it isn't really that noticeable at first glance. Another odd thing, there is only one serial number on the whole gun, on the bottom of the frame, but it not a kit because it has proof marks and too nice looking to be one.It looks to be 1993 or 94. Out of all the BP revolvers I own this is only that all the other markings are on the bottom of the receiver and barrel in front of the trigger guard and it is crowded. Really clean looking as far as markings. not plastered all over the gun like so many others I own or have owned. The only one you would really notice is the Euroarms of America on top of the barrel and even it isn't really that noticeable at first glance. Another odd thing, there is only one serial number on the whole gun, on the bottom of the frame, but it not a kit because it has proof marks and too nice looking to be one.

 

[whughett]

I just found a new ASM marking or rather, a known marking in a new location:
View attachment 768180
This is the ASM pyramid logo but on the left front side of a brass frame!
http://www.gunbroker.com/item/717440646

That is the mark on a NMA I picked up at a gun show two years ago. Can't recall the year code.

 

[Ephraim Kibbey]

Gaucho Gringo - This pretty much confirms your understanding of the ASP/Euroarms Italia/Euroarms America connection:

http://bluebookofgunvalues.com/Blac...rearm_Manufacturer.aspx?id=ARMI_SAN_PAOLO_Srl

The following quotes from it are rearranged for the sake of correct chronology:

"In the early 1960s Giacomo Grassi, Giuseppe Doninelli, along with a person named Gazzola [the circle DGG logo,] were involved in a company manufacturing small caliber semi-auto pistols called Gradoga. In 1971, when Gradoga closed, Giacomo Grassi and Giuseppe Doninelli joined Luciano Amadi (who already had a small gun trading company) to form Armi San Paolo in a small town 25 km south of Brescia called San Paolo. Armi San Paolo grew to employ approximately 60 people, and Euroarms of America Inc. was formed in Winchester, VA, to distribute all Armi San Paolo products. In 1987, the replica market shrank, and Armi San Paolo started the move from San Paolo, Italy to Concesio, Italy with the move being completed during 1990."

"ARMI SAN PAOLO S.r.l.
Previous trademark previously named Armi San Paolo beginning 1971 and originally located in San Paolo, Italy. Armi San Paolo S.r.l. is currently located in Concesio, Italy. They changed their name to Euroarms Italia S.r.l. in January 2002."

My guess is that Euroarms America must have ordered a shipment of ASM 1851's for some reason in the 1993-4 time frame. We may never know if there was a strike at Euroarms Italia, an equipment malfunction, a different level of fit and finish needed or an increase in volume that the recent (1990) move to a smaller factory in Concesio, Italy could not fill.

 

[Ephraim Kibbey]

whughett - I think it is a very cool logo with the "M" as the bottom of the "A" and the "S" in the center combining the top of the "A" and the middle of the "M." This usage on the side of the brass frame seems enormous to me as I have only seen it in its miniscule form on the bottom of the frame in front of the trigger guard jumbled together with the proofs. the serial numbers and the date code.

 

[Ephraim Kibbey]

Here is a GB auction for another ASM made and so marked 1851 from Euroarms of America.
http://www.gunbroker.com/item/717980011

It is marked ASM in a pyramid on the bottom of the frame in photo 9

and A.S.M. before "Black Powder Only" on the lower right bevel of the barrel in photo 10.

While there is no photo of the inscription on the top barrel flat, the description clearly identifies it as "Euroarms of America."
Photo 9 also shows an upside down "BC" cartouche for 1993, the same time period as the gun that Gaucho Gringo has described.
Gaucho Gringo, do you need one for the off side so that you are "well balanced" (Willy Nelson/Doc Holliday in the Kris Kristofferson remake of Stagecoach?)

 

[Gaucho Gringo]

Gaucho Gringo - This pretty much confirms your understanding of the ASP/Euroarms Italia/Euroarms America connection:

http://bluebookofgunvalues.com/Blac...rearm_Manufacturer.aspx?id=ARMI_SAN_PAOLO_Srl

The following quotes from it are rearranged for the sake of correct chronology:

"In the early 1960s Giacomo Grassi, Giuseppe Doninelli, along with a person named Gazzola [the circle DGG logo,] were involved in a company manufacturing small caliber semi-auto pistols called Gradoga. In 1971, when Gradoga closed, Giacomo Grassi and Giuseppe Doninelli joined Luciano Amadi (who already had a small gun trading company) to form Armi San Paolo in a small town 25 km south of Brescia called San Paolo. Armi San Paolo grew to employ approximately 60 people, and Euroarms of America Inc. was formed in Winchester, VA, to distribute all Armi San Paolo products. In 1987, the replica market shrank, and Armi San Paolo started the move from San Paolo, Italy to Concesio, Italy with the move being completed during 1990."

"ARMI SAN PAOLO S.r.l.
Previous trademark previously named Armi San Paolo beginning 1971 and originally located in San Paolo, Italy. Armi San Paolo S.r.l. is currently located in Concesio, Italy. They changed their name to Euroarms Italia S.r.l. in January 2002."

My guess is that Euroarms America must have ordered a shipment of ASM 1851's for some reason in the 1993-4 time frame. We may never know if there was a strike at Euroarms Italia, an equipment malfunction, a different level of fit and finish needed or an increase in volume that the recent (1990) move to a smaller factory in Concesio, Italy could not fill.

Thank you .