Pedersoli misfires

[tark]

Hi guys. Im kind of new to muzzle loaders and I hope you can help me with a problem I'm having. I recently traded some work for a Pedersoli double rifle in .50 cal. The gun is the deluxe model with the pistol grip stock and engraving on the receiver and it is beautiful. But it won't always go off.... Im using CCI magnum #11 caps and American Pioneer 3F black powder substitute. I know....I should be using the real thing but no one in my area carries real black powder.
The problem is the hole in the nipples is so tiny it is constantly plugging up. My friends tell me to drill out the hole but I am extremely wary of doing this. It doesn't sound to me like a good (or safe) idea. So I guess my question is; what size should the hole be? If it is undersize...I can drill without any problems but I need to know what size the hole SHOULD be! Help!

 

[Willie Sutton]

Unless the nipples were changed by a prior owner, I betya that Pedersoli knew exactly what they were doing and that drilling them out is not a great idea.

Have you run a nipple pick thru the vents? Mebbe they are just fouled.

And... get some real BP


Willie

.

 

[J-Bar]

I suspect you got a dirty rifle. Have you cleaned it yet? How much powder are you using?

Refer to the manual appropriate for your rifle; pull the nipple, clean the nipple, barrel, etc, to make sure all oil and fouling has been removed.

Start clean, keep it clean. The nipple hole is tiny for a reason...it funnels the cap fire and reduces blownback pressure when the main powder charge ignites. Don't mess with it.

 

[dogrunner]

I've owned my copy of what you have for around twenty years. I have NEVER had a failure to fire. Pull those nipples, clean 'em well and run a pipe cleaner in the nipple receptacle thru to the bore while your at it.

I'll admit to changing the nipple configuration to musket types at a friends suggestion some years back, but still, even with the original ones it has never failed.

You sure your powders OK? Haven't tried that particular stuff, but mine works the same with either GOEX/T7/or Pyrodex!........You've gotta have either some obstruction or bad propellant......

 

[Crawdad1]

Don't drill the nipple, it was designed to have a bigger hole up top and a very tiny hole in the bottom to reduce the blowback as much as possible and to concentrate the fire into the chamber.

What you need to get is a nipple pick. What you need to do is clean the nipples that you have real good or get yourself some replacements. The first thing I do when I get a percussion firearm is to remove the factory nipples and put aftermarket replacements on.

 

[wap41]

I'll bet it is dirty nipples,I've used american pioneer powder for years .Never had it not fire,Dirty nipples or lube contaminated powder is likley the problem.

 

[BigG]

Got to run a "pick" - to us modern guys, a wire, through from the nipple to the bore. That passage is what is keeping it from firing. BP guns need to be cleaned very well.

I'd remove the bbls and nipples and stick the breech in a bucket of hot water pumping water up the bore with a patch and jag on my ramrod. That should be done each time you shoot the gun, including the first.

 

[MEHavey]

Your problem is unlikely to be the nipple – and don’t drill it out no matter what. That #11 cap flame will punch through even (what appears to be ) the tiniest of holes, and turn almost any corner into the breech with near cutting-torch intensity as long as the nipple hole remains small.

Your problem is *likely* to be in Pedersoli’s patent breech recess at the bottom of the Barrel. If you have them on the double rifle design, these recesses are about ¼” in depth and are deliberately “choked down” from the barrel’s 50 caliber to something on the order of 35 caliber to (supposedly) give better ignition to the larger charge in the rest of the barrel. It does work, BUT….. normal cleaning jags cannot get into the recess. It fills up with old powder (and worse – old cleaning solution and old wet powder) to become concrete.

You must deliberately clean out that recess with a patch folded through-and-over-the-end of slotted jag of about 30 caliber using a standard rifle rod. You’ll actually feel that jag/patch combination very distinctly move “thunk” down into that recess when you get to the bottom of the barrel – can’t miss it.

Since Pedersoli’s breech flash channels are often quite small, I cannot get a pipe-cleaner into/through it on my "regular" BP rifles like I can on Thompson Center/Green Mountain and/or standard military muskets. So while the nipple’s out for cleaning. I use a spray can of Carb Cleaner and get the little spray tube right down/up against the flash channel . One very fast squirt, let it sit for 10 seconds, then clean *all sorts of gunk* out of the patent breech recess using the slotted jag/patch combo. And little preservative oil on that patch at cleaning’s end (as well as in the barrel proper) and you’re done.

When setting up to fire again: Dry-patch the recess out (slotted jag again); dry patch the barrel; snap caps, and go….

When Pedersoli’s small flash channel/patent breech system is taken care of this way, I have NEVER had a first round failure to fire. And my Pedersoli has noticeably the fastest “ignition lock time” (to mix design metaphors) of all my percussion rifles.

 

[DaveP (UK)]

Don't enlarge it. Use a nipple pick if you have to. If the hole gets too large the blowback can knock the hammer back into half cock, which can damage the tumbler because it was never designed withstand the mainspring slamming it against the sear. The cap fragments and hot gases in your face wouldn't be too good either, but before things get that far you would notice your groups getting bigger. Don't really understand why, but its well known that accuracy suffers when vents and nipple holes get too big.
If you really have to try - get a spare first!

 

[kituwa]

Like someone already said, its probably patially plugged up in the patented breack plug. My navy arms hawkins was like that and it missfired half the time until i cleaned it out.Its easy to check it by pouring just your powder in the barrel with a nipple out. If its all clear you should see plenty of powder in the hole where the nipple screws in. I assume you alls tilt your gun so the nipple is down and tap the gun several times so the powder runs in behind the nipple when you load? I have not used that type of powder before but if its real coarse grains like somw substitute powder that may be the cause of the missfires too. They sell a flat blade scraper that screws on the end of your ram rod or cleaning rod that fits down in the smaller part of a patent breach plug that scrapes out the residue so it dont build up. You need one of those or make one. Mine was so plugged up i had to remove the breach plug to get it cleaned out. Luckilly my plug came right off because often they wont.

 

[tark]

I have NOT drilled the nipples and, based on what I'm reading. I'm not going to. I have heard many suggestions which seem to make sense, but.... For starters I can't run a pipe cleaner through the hole, it is far too small. Likewise, a nipple pick. It is too large to go into the hole! I did dig them out with a small needle, which would JUST BARELY go into the hole. The needle measured .006 thousands with my dial caliper. That seems awfully small to me.... Is it possible that some nipples got into the system that have not had the finishing hole drilled? Me loads so far have all been light, 70 grains American Pioneer 3f with a patched .490 round ball. I always pop two caps on the nipple before loading. And yes.. I know the real thing would be better, but no one in my area carries the real thing. I would send the gun to Pedersoli but I got it in a trade and I don't feel that that would be right. It is so damn pretty it always be a knockout wall hanger even if I never get it firing right.

 

[MEHavey]

Did you read the red text in Post #8 above?

If so, and if the patent breech section is gunked up, just plug the nipple, spray some carb cleaner
down into the bottom of barrel and let it sit for a minute or two. Then use the the big patch
through/folded over the slotted 30 caliber jag and clean it out.

Repeat if/as req'd until the patch comes out clean.

.

 

[tark]

Wow! Got some carburetor cleaner and removed the nipples and did a thorough cleaning. The bore does reduce in size near the breech and it was full of crap that The cleaning Jag wasn't reaching. MEHavey, looks like you nailed the problem with your post. Ill bet the nipple was working just fine all along, but the rear of the barrel was so full of crap that the flame couldn't reach the powder. I fired five rounds through each barrel today without a bobble. Thank you, one and all, for your insight.

 

[Crawdad1]

Hmmm, I wonder what type of 'pick' you have there. There are two types of 'picks' one for a touchhole/vent on a flintlock which is a larger and another pick for the percussion which is a lot smaller. You're going to need it for shooting so you might as well get it now.

Here;

http://www.dixiegunworks.com/product_info.php?products_id=16069

 

[MEHavey]

...nailed the problem...

De nada señor.
(It's always the little foxes)

 

[tark]

Shot some more today, without a bobble(or misfire!!) I sure love this gun. With the rear leaf raised, both barrels are printing within four inches of each other at fifty yards! I know Pedersoli intended for each barrel to have its own leaf, which eliminated the need to regulate the barrels but this gun shoots almost like someone DID regulate the tubes. This is with my 70gr roundball load. I suspect it will scatter things more with conical bullets but who knows? I'll probably never hunt with it anyway, it weighs 11 pounds. That is a lot to lug around!

 

[J-Bar]

You have a fine firearm, and you have demonstrated that you can work through the idiosyncrasies of a black powder gun. Welcome to the brotherhood of soot lords my friend...it is an honor earned only by those who love smoke and history!

 

[dogrunner]

Tark, I get consistent groups of about two inches at a friends 52 yard range. Load is 92 grains of 3f Goex under a TC maxi that I cast myself. Lube is TC's bore butter. Like you, I use only the rear sight leaf............the left bbl on mine tends to throw a bit higher for some reason but for hunting what more can you want, especially here in Fla. where most shots are at about that distance anyway.