Personal shotgun or borrowed rifle for deer?

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Frostbite

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Hello distinguished fellows,
The possibility of being accompanied by a good friend of mine on my next whitetail deer hunting trip, this upcoming fall, has me questioning which tool I should recommend him to use.

He is 36, in good shape, strong enough. He has never hunted before and is relatively new to the world of firearms. The only firearm he possesses is a Benelli Nova pump twelve gauge shotgun. He says this gun can be used to hunt anything we might hunt (not exactly true, shotguns are not allowed for caribou), and he sure is right to think it can be used to harvest deer.

I have been hunting for a little more than twenty years, I own a rifle I could lend him, a Remington 760 Gamemaster in .30-06, topped with some kind of a ghost ring (it was given to me that way :barf:).

I think it would be better suited for the purpose of deer hunting, especially since we have not yet decided where this hunting trip would take place and therefore cannot predict what the terrain will be like.

Bearing in mind that I would very much like him to succeed in his first hunting experience so that he becomes even more interested in hunting and eventually a good hunting buddy, do you think it would be appropriate to insist a little for him to take the rifle or not at all, that I should, much to the contrary, let him hunt with his own gun?

P.s. He is not the greatest shooter, but he surely would be able to take advantage of the rifle in my humble opinion.

P.s. 2 I know most deer I have harvested were killed within shotgun range.

P.s. 3 Slugs are allowed, but sabots would be a waste in his smooth bore gun.

What do you experienced gents think about this?
 
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Well, in my humble opinion I would recommend the rifle. Importantly, you need to get him some range time and work with him on the rules of gun safety and safe hunting.

PS - years ago I went through a Similar experience. My buddy borrowed an old .30-40 Krag Sporterized. Now he hunts deer and elk, and has a safe full of Weatherby rifles with expensive scopes.
 
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He should use a rifle with a scope. Mount a scope on the .30-06 and get him practicing with it.
 
So, if I get this correctly, it is preferable to have him practice with my rifle then with his own shotgun in your opinion too. I was afraid it could hurt his pride. You know, the "I am a man and I bought the right thing" kind of thing.

I could put my totally useless shotgun scope on that rifle, it would be better than nothing. It is a 1-4x, not the most expensive, but I agree it should help him to hit a deer better than those, well, "included" sights. :barf: :barf: :barf:

I manage to keep it within nine inches or so at 100 yards with those, but it takes all I have, they do not even hold zero: they move a little on each shot. I had resolved to use only the front sight.
 
Good idea, bringing the shotgun will prevent him from thinking he chose wrong or that he should absolutely buy more guns and be annoyed because they are not necessarily budgeted right now. That will come naturally later! :D
 
Borrow your friends rifle.

I once looked after my friend's firearms while he visited his dad on the east coast for a couple of seasons. He had a Ruger 77 in 22 magnum and I used it almost every weekend. I shot ptarmigan, grouse, ducks, foxes, hundreds of hares, a couple of beaver and other small game. When he came back and asked for his firearms I told him of all the adventures and he got extremely jealous. Sometime later we were in an argument about something stupid (you know how guys are) and I told him I had killed more game with his own rifles then he had and he just about had a seizure.

Loan your friend the rifle and then let him shoot a trophy deer with it. The bragging rights to a rifle you don't own are priceless.
 
I could put my totally useless shotgun scope on that rifle, it would be better than nothing. It is a 1-4x,

At ranges up to 200-300 yards a 1-4X scope is as good as anything else, that is all I use on my AR's and have used them on close range deer rifles for a long time. Years ago fixed 4X scopes were used at ranges out to 400-500 yards regularly. Having the option of 1X-3X is great for closer work. Most people use way too much magnification anyway
 
I agree the magnification is sufficient, it is the quality of the scope that is debatable. Not a Leupold... But still, it would be better than the present sights.

I withheld from buying appropriate rings for the job because I do not use that rifle for hunting. Now, This would give me a good enough reason to spend that money and an excuse to go to the range a few times with it: zeroing, having my friend shoot it as many times as possible before hunting season...

I really like the idea of convincing him to use the rifle, it comes with many benefits. ;)
 
fb,

Easy answer. Since you say he will be hunting at shotgun distances (probably less than 100 yards) put out a target at the range and see if he can hit a 6 inch circle every time with his shotgun and choice of buckshot or slugs. If he can then he has every reason to use his shotgun, if not then he should easily be persuaded that his shotgun is not the best weapon for the job and he can practice with your rifle. Good luck.

best wishes- oldandslow

PS- I hunt with both rifle and 12ga shotgun with slugs.
 
Well, I do not already know where we will hunt this year, so I do not know if he will be hunting at shotgun distances, but I agree that I should have him shoot his shotgun at the range to see how he can shoot slugs with it. Buckshot is not allowed at my range... When it is crowded anyway.

If he can hold six inches at 100 yards with his shotgun, I will just shut up. There are only two beads on that thing. I seriously doubt I will have to! :evil:
 
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I hunt with a Encore muzzleloader most of the time, and with a BAR in .270 Winchester whenever I have a chance to do so. That rifle should accompany me on that trip.

I have a twelve gauge also, but it is for small game and it serves as a backup to the rifle in the improbable event that it should fail, which it has not since 1993, in all imaginable hunting conditions.

The pump shotgun is my fallback plan, definitely not my primary deer slayer. I like to have it with me because once my deer is dead, I can still walk in the woods with a gun (not allowed to carry my rifle here after my tag has been used, excepted in one hunting zone only, where bear can also be hunted during fall).
 
Look, you are hunting in a place where the deer are taken at shotgun range. Many of us here live in states that have been shotgun only for YEARS. before sabots and rifled barrels, Ohioans simply shot full size rifled slugs in their rabbit guns, and they were GOOD with them because they were very familiar with them. A "slug barrel" used to be one with a rear sight.

To take a guy who isn't a gun enthusiast to begin with, take away the only guns he is even remotely familiar with, and training him on a new gun is a really BAD idea. I'm speculating that the area you hunt is thick, shots are likley well under 100 yards, and a scope would be an obstacle. Most Ohio deer are taken at under 50 yards. It's not unusual for anyone to be less comfortable using someone else's gun, if if just the fear of damaging it.

Get 4 or 5 boxes of different brand rifles slugs, and see which on shoots best and closest to where you want it to in his gun, and let him have the confidence that he can use his gun for the realistic shots he's likely to get.

I wouldn't push him to use your gun unless he genuinely wants to do so.
 
You are right about the possibility of a shot within 50 yards. Do you think some kind of sights should be added at all since you oppose the use of a scope? I prefer to take aim at the animal before I shoot, but know some consider it a handicap when using buckshot. I would favor slugs over it, but my friend might feel different about this.
 
A full choke with #1 mag. or 00 mag. buckshot has accounted for many thousands of deer in the South. Keep the shots within 40 yards and aim for the head-neck area.
 
I would make clear to your friend that you both must spend a decent amount of time on the range prior to season and then set up at 100yd/m with a paper plate as a target and explain that is a decent rendition of a kill zone and let him have at with his shotgun and your 760. Do the same at 200 and unless he is a total fool or you 760 is junk the choice will be clear.
I'm betting that "ghost ring" sight is a Williams or Lyman Aperture/peep and I think if you give it a chance you will find it more than serviceable and I wouldn't be surprised if you were able to keep 3 shots under 3" at 100 with a little practice. Inserts of different diameters can be bought for that sight as well as some with brass rings that will trick your eye into working better in lower light.
The shotgun will work as aback up but your friend needs to understand the ballistic difference and capabilities of the two, you printing out some charts with energy and trajectory should help as well.
 
You are right about the sight, but I tell you, either this rifle strings horizontally like it should not, or that rear sight does not hold its zero.
 

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I use desert paper plates for practice when I take the shotgun out with slugs, I am sure my friend will like it too.

Will try to have him hit one at 200 for fun, but will not hold my breath. He is kind of recoil sensitive and that rifle is just painful after thirty rounds or so.

I would prefer that he hits consistently in the kill zone at a hundred and that he limits himself when first out hunting. I hunt for fun and food, but can have fun without the food if I have to. I do not like the idea of injuring an animal and not finding it afterwards. I do not tolerate shooting for fun, or to see if one can get it there, when animals are the target. Shoot to kill or do not shoot at all.

Two hundred yards on a moving deer while standing, without a rest, using these sights, is just too far for me, and my friend is not a better shot than I am with a rifle, I have witnessed it.
 
Over the decades I have heard many stories concerning mixed results with that pump Remington (760 and its clones). Some love 'em and some hate 'em.
 
I would say if he is not going to practice with your rifle , take what he is comfortable with .
 
Shotgun with slugs are good to 115 yards in my experience. He could shoot 3" slugs and kill deer easily. If it is illegal and the hunt will be rifles only then there really isn't a choice.
He could get a Marlin .270 for $250-$270 dollars NIB from gunbroker.com, and that would be an excellent choice. A $100 3x9 scope, and he is good to go. Or he could mount you 4x scope because the gun comes with rings, and still use his own rifle.
 
Frostbite

It would not be surprising if your friend decided to make a rifle purchase after a few trips to the range.

Some of the entry level rifles these days are great shooters.

I have a spare Browning ABolt that I loan my nephew. In the event he takes his first deer with it, I suppose I will have a slight dilema. I may need to let him purchase it at a price he can afford

Helping a friend gain experience with firearms and hunting is an admirable endevour. Good job and good luck.
 
What is the accuracy of a smooth bore shotgun at 115 yards? With only two beads for a sighting system? Mine gave me approximately 3 inches at fourthy yards or so, standing, no rest, with front bead only. Shotguns are legal for deer over here wherever guns are allowed, slugs or buckshot, to the hunter's preference.

I do not hate the rifle, but I do not like it either. It kicks like a mule and I do not shoot it that well. It is a range toy for when I get bored of my .22's. I do not mind putting rounds through it since I do not recognize it any other value than a sentimental one (it was given to me by my wife's grandpa, a very nice and old man whom I appreciate).

As far as I am concerned, my friend can practice with my rifle as much as he wants. His availability for range time being limited, he might have to choose soon between my rifle and his own shotgun.

Thank you Swanee, firearms are being so frowned upon over here that recruiting new hunters is both rare and difficult. Hunting itself is not popular in public opinion, but firearms have become simply diabolical for most, thanks to the media, the police organizations who think they should be the only ones to have access to guns, and politicians who took advantage of dramas involving weapons to gain political capital with more control on guns, blaming the tools instead of the poor lost souls who committed horrible tragedies. That is ironic in a place where only two generations ago, hunting for food was still a real necessity for many and most owned an old shotgun and or a rifle, most often a military surplus .303, in the house.

Times change, but hunting remains an important part of who I am. I want others to enjoy it too. I cannot express how much I would like my now two years old heir to become a hunter and a fisherman when he grows up. We are on the right road: he caught his first two fish last weekend at my father's place, and he enjoyed it very much!
 
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