Picking a trail gun (10mm vs .44 Mag)

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Macchina

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I backpack for several weeks/weekends each year and fish wooded trout streams almost every weekend during the season. Most all my activities take place in the Great Lakes Region where black bear, and stay dog packs are common. I currently just carry my CCW which is either a Sig P239 (.40) or a Taurus TCP (.380). The .380 fits in my wader pocket perfectly. I'm looking to go one of two routes here with my next pistol purchase: continue to concealed carry an auto (Glock 10mm 29sf) or get a lightweight (Under 30oz.) .44 for open carry (Taurus 444 or S&W 329PD or...).

Any thoughts on lugging these kinds of guns around the woods? I'm leaning towards the Glock because I don't have any revolvers yet, however I hunt with and load for a Marlin .44 Mag levergun. The idea of a revolver is nice (all metal, serious power, just plain cool, etc.)

I'd love to get a used Ruger Redhawk in .44 Mag, but their quite heavy.

I will reload for either option and would prefer to spend around $600. Lightweight .44 Mag suggestions are welcome! If it's a S&W, I will have to buy used... This gun is not going to be a range gun either way, IT WILL BE MEANT FOR CARRYING OR POSSIBLY HUNTING DOWN THE ROAD, NOT PLINKING.
 
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IMHO, the S&W is wayyy ahead of a Taurus. The "lightweight" criteria sort of leaves Ruger out of the mix. The GLOCK 29 is just a touch on the small side (for me) to run full-house 10mm loads. Since you already own compact CCW choices, why not consider a G20? More capacity, more control & a power-factor nearing the .41 mag.
 
Oh yeah: I'm also considering just sticking with my Sig P239 for this role. My only gripe about it is that it's a bit heavy (30oz.) for 8 rounds of .40 S&W... Both the Glock and the 329PD are significantly lighter with a lot more power.
 
IMHO, the S&W is wayyy ahead of a Taurus. The "lightweight" criteria sort of leaves Ruger out of the mix. The GLOCK 29 is just a touch on the small side (for me) to run full-house 10mm loads. Since you already own compact CCW choices, why not consider a G20? More capacity, more control & a power-factor nearing the .41 mag.

I thought about that, but I'm not too interested in lugging around a full size pistol when I can get a smaller (perfect?) sized pistol in the same caliber. For a range gun, I'd go full size all day long, but I don't plan on shooting more than 500 rounds from this gun in it's lifetime. Enough to get comfortable, but I do most of my handgun practice with .22lr or my carry P239.

Are you suggesting I count Taurus out completely?
 
I'm way more than 30oz overweight, so it's kinda hard for me to fathom 6 oz difference on a good belt making me any difference. As far as 10mm vs 44 Mag I'd get both but then again I'm an addict.
Are you suggesting I count Taurus out completely?
I would life's too short to take a chance of having to use their customer service, when Smith is so easy to deal with.
 
How much hiking are we talking about? Are you looking to shave ounces from your pack weight?

I'm betting probably not. So just carry the .44 Mag lever gun you already have.

On the other hand if you just want a shiny new toy, pick up a .44 Mag. It won't be lighter but it'll pack a heck of a punch.
 
Shoot a flyweight .44 magnum with full house loads before thinking that's the perfect solution for you.

Adding a couple ounces going to a G29 over a G29 is well worth it for the added shootability.

If those extra ounces matter that much, shave them off elsewhere.
 
significantly lighter with a lot more power

....which is not always a good thing. Imagine an attack from a stray dog pack where you have 4-6 very fast moving targets, and then try to imagine the shot-to-shot recovery times necessary to address that threat.
Sure they might all run away after the first big loud BOOM, but then again...they might not.

G20 would be a good gun for this purpose. For a trail gun where the largest threat is a black bear, I might even consider a 3" Ruger SP101. Light, easy to carry, and it's pretty big medicine when teamed up with 158gr hollow points, from Buffalo Bore.

P.S.- I should have read David E's post before I posted. I'll give him a huge +1.
 
Hiking, !0mm would be my choice.

Coincidentally I just had a conversation similar to this at the LGS 20 minutes ago with a fellow looking at 200 grain lead penetrator rounds vs bonded core. I'm not smart enough to properly hold a Glock, but from what I've understood, they're one of the better choices to take the abuse of 10mm force.

Deliberate hunting, I'd take the .44 mag (or 41 mag) for intentional game-taking, and ideally the 10mm as backup

As far as Taurus goes, I've had great experience with their .357s... Poor from the 9 shot 22, mediocre from a range-rental 1911, and a PT25 that just annoyed the living daylights out of me. You seem to have less of a chance of needing the lifetime warranty with their wheelguns.
 
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I was doing a search for 10mm, and found this thread. Personally, I really love the M&P line for how it feels in my hands, and I would love it if they made it in a 10mm, as a 'woods' gun. I think my second choice might be the 357 sig. I'm not a ballistics expert, but I really like what that 10mm offers, (near .41 mag #s) with a double action trigger in an autoloader.

I respect the glock platform, they just feel horrid in my hand..

PE
 
I prefer revolvers in .357 magnum, myself. Revolvers are very accurate and in .357 are versatile, mags for defense, .38 for small game if you think you might do that. I do on occasion, especially in hunting season when I have a rifle for the big stuff. I have a favorite Taurus 4" M66 that is very accurate with either .38 or .357. I also have a .45 Colt Blackhawk that I tote some when I might need it for a hog. Funny thing, I've shot hogs with .357, but not with the .45 at least outside of the trap. Go figure.
 
Availability of ammunition should be considered.

After I recently acquired a G29, I discovered how hard it can be to locate 10mm ammunition on the shelf. One gun shop locally has it. The price recently went from reasonable to ...wow. I have never, ever found it at a Wal-mart or Dick's. An area Gander Mountain has a few boxes of it, priced between ...wow... and "Are you (bleep) kidding?".

I still like the 10mm. However, I tend to buy in bulk to ensure a supply. .44 magnum, on the other hand, seems to be quite common. I can find all sorts of loads at all sorts of places. Prices can be reasonable or silly, but it is there to buy.

If you want to be able to buy ammunition for your sidearm anywhere, 10mm is not a good choice. If you plan to only shoot from pre-purchased stock, then this is not such a big deal.
 
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Oh yeah: I'm also considering just sticking with my Sig P239 for this role. My only gripe about it is that it's a bit heavy (30oz.) for 8 rounds of .40 S&W... Both the Glock and the 329PD are significantly lighter with a lot more power.

I'd check a bit on the weights of the guns. The Glock is, I think, 33 oz loaded.
26 oz unloaded.

The 329PD is a BIG gun, even if it weighs 25 oz. The recoil speed with .44 magnum is going to be scary, but, keep it to the low end of the scale, say 240 grains at 1100-1200 fps, and it shouldn't be too bad. I'd pass on 340's at 1400 fps....

I don't see the 10MM as that much more powerful then .40. 10MM is
bullet weight challenged. I REALLY like bullets in the 260-290 grain range, and the .44 is the only one going there.

I'd go for a .44, and carry your 40 as well. Or, just the .44.

A used BFR would be really nice, as well, and near your price range.
 
Mine are a Redhawk and a Security Six. Which I choose is driven by the size and meanness of the orneriest critter that lives where I'm going.
 
If you're in bear country I'd sure recommend carrying a .44mag with a nice six inch barrel. They aren't light but worn on a hip holster with a good belt not too bad. I carried a S&W model 29 with a 6.5" barrel for a lot of years in Alaska. Add to that a gun belt with a dozen .44mag rounds in loops and it weighed a good bit. But carrying on a good belt isn't all that tiring and if you have to discourage a black or brown bear that .44mag while not as good as a rifle will do the job if the shooter does his. I guided a handgun hunter once after grizzlies. He had a .44mag and I backed him with a 30-06. He got a decent two shot kill on a respectable sized grizzly on the upper Noatak river in NE Alaska. Bears aren't something to play with, a friend of mine was mauled to death by a black bear near Juneau a few years ago. I wouldn't even consider an autoloader for this kind of use, a big revolver with long sight radius and a max loaded .44 is much better. If you can't do it with six you can't do it.
 
I carry a Taurus Model 44 6.5". I have had it for about 10 years and have lots of full power 300 grain loads through it. Not sure why folks think they are substandard.

That being said, I borrowed a friend's 329 backpacker for a sheep hunt last year. The lighter weight was glorious when crawling up and down the mountains. I am now in the market for a Taurus 444.

I wouldn't feel under armed with a 10mm if there were only black bears in the woods and might opt for a G20 over a G29.
 
Glock 20 and S&W 629 are great trail guns.

During 45 years of hiking and backpacking in the SW and in the Rockies, I have carried the following for self defense while on the trail: S&W Model 19 .357 mag, S&W 629 .44 mag, Taurus Tracker (5 shot) .44 mag, a a Glock 20 in 10 mm, and bear repellant spray. All of the revolvers had 4" barrels. Except for the 629, each of the handguns weigh approximately 40 oz fully loaded. The 629 weighs a little over 47 oz loaded.

I consider a .44 mag revolver to be the minimum recommended caliber for defense against medium and large black bear, but lesser calibers have often been used (by others), sometimes with success. For the last 10 years, I have typically carried a can of bear spray as my primary and either my S&W 629 or Glock 20 as a backup. Often an unarmed companion is carrying bear spray as well.

Following are some of my observations about the trail guns I have carried.

Taurus Tracker SS 5 shot .44 mag., 4" ported barrel, weighs 34 oz empty, about 40 oz loaded. Good balance, slightly muzzle heavy. My Tracker has smooth single action and double action trigger pulls which rival that of my 629 Classic. It is as accurate as my 629 with 4" barrel, and even though it is 8 oz lighter than my 4" 629, the effective porting and the shock absorbing ribbed grip on the Tracker make the recoil and muzzle jump seem less than on the 4" 629.

The Tracker has several disadvantages due to its porting: * It has a louder muzzle blast (about equal to a .357 or .44 mag snub, IMO), especially for bystanders and other shooters standing next to you. *It is harder to clean around the porting, especially if you shoot more than a few lead bullet loads. I recommend jacketed bullets only. (Although the occasional use of hard cast has not caused problems.) *Speer advises that it is unsafe to use shot shell ammo in ported handguns.

The Tracker has a few other disadvantages as well: lack of aftermarket accessories; parts and service are typically not available from local gunsmiths; and limitations on the power, length and bullet weight of recommended ammo.

Taurus recommends that the power of ammo used should not exceed that of a 240 gr bullet at 1350 fps (which is about the level of many commercially available loads.) I consider 250 gr. to be the maximum bullet weight in this revolver. Loads using 270 or 300 gr jacketed or hard cast bullets are not an option with the Tracker.

Glock 20: 40 oz fully loaded. A decent compromise between power and portability. More reliable than my revolvers under conditions where a handgun can get wet and/or dirty. If I fall into a muddy creek, my Glock 20 can be ready to shoot in a few minutes; not so with my revolvers. Probably adequate in the hands of a skilled shooter for protection from small and medium size black bear; excellent for protection against anything smaller. It only weighs a few oz more than a G29, so go for the G20 unless you are placing a high priority on concealment. The grip may be too large for most shooters with small and medium sized hands to shoot well with a one handed grip.

S&W 629 with 4" barrel. 48 oz loaded. Good all around handgun. Drilled and tapped for mounting optical sights. Great trail gun for open carry if you feel you can handle the weight. Although some shooters fire maximum loads with 300 gr hard cast or jacketed bullets, most shooters find the recoil excessive and hard to handle with such loads. My favorite trail gun.

Bear spray. Weight = 1 lb. Until recently, the only protection a hiker was legally allowed to carry in a National Park. Major advantage: You can justifiably (and legally) spray any bear that gets within range (about 20 to 25 feet) regardless of whether it is attacking you. You can only shoot a bear legally in self defense if it is attacking you or another human. I have used it successfully twice on black bear with no problems. Easier to aim and hit with than a handgun.

If concealment is important, any of these handguns can be carried in a discrete Wilderness holster which can be worn on the chest or on the belt.

If you are serious about bear protection, I recommend that you get the most effective handgun you can handle, even if it weighs a few oz or a half pound more. I recommend that you do not consider .44 mag revolvers lighter than the SS Tracker at 34 oz or any .44 mag revolver with a barrel shorter than 4".
 
I have a 329PD. Nice to carry, not fun to shoot. Actually a little lighter than a G20. Between the two, esp. in not-brown-bear country, carry the one you shoot best, IMHO.

Have you thought about the 3 inch airweight S&W 357? That's not going to be fun to shoot either, but it's half the weight of even the 329.

For that matter, a 4 inch SP101 would be a pretty decent gun in black bear country - the same weight as the 329 but probably more fun to shoot.

Whatever you take, for bear you likely want heavy hardcast bullets.
 
Well, my choice recently was to buy a Ruger Blackhawk in .45 Colt, 4 5/8" barrel. A bit heavy for my tastes but 200 ~ 300 grains of lead more than makes up for that.

Especially the "Ruger Only" load data...
 
I have both of the choices you suggest and have carried both as trail guns. However, recently I have started carrying a short barreled 41 Mag with good hard cast bullets. Don't rule out the 41 Mag.
 
I owned a .44 once, hardly ever justified its weight.

No I have the G20SF and it goes every time.

Holster.png
 
It would depend on what state you're in. In just about all of the US the 10mm, 44Mag, and even the 357Mag would would work.

Here in Alaska in a handgun the 44Mag is what they say is "bear" minimum. Although i am in the process of getting 10mm for CC. If i do carry it out in the field i will also be toting my Remington 12 pump.
 
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