pistol grip double barrel question

[Revolver Ocelot]

I was wondering about the leagality of cutting the stock on a stoeger sxs to more of a pistol grip while leaving the barrel length intact. I'm made to understand that as long as the overall length is still greater than 26" this is leagal.

Is this correct? Please fill me in if you have any info.

 

[zhyla]

Eh... I think you need to pay a tax stamp to go from shotgun -> AOW to keep the feds happy. But I'm no expert here. Be mindful of local laws too.

 

[cpirtle]

It must have a minimum 18" barrel length & 26" overall length, not one or the other. Most people go 18.5 on the barrel and stick to 26.5" OAL or more to be on the safe side. The barrel length is measured by the ATF by dropping a marked stick in the barrel with the action closed. 17 7/8" and you're screwed.

As for cutting down a double, when you do it you will be left with a gap in between the barrels because you'll lose the filler plate. Many people use JB weld, you can mix a little black die or paint to darken it but it still generally looks like crap.

 

[Sam1911]

Federally it just has to stay over 26" overall and over 18" on the barrels.

State laws do vary, though.

(It can't ever be an AOW. If it came from the factory with a shoulder stock -- or it EVER had a shoulder stock installed -- it is a shotgun. It can be registered and converted to a Short-Barreled Shotgun (even with a pistol grip only stock), but it won't ever be a "smooth-bore pistol" AOW because of the way the NFA '34 is written.)

 

[Revolver Ocelot]

Eh... I think you need to pay a tax stamp to go from shotgun -> AOW to keep the feds happy. But I'm no expert here. Be mindful of local laws too.

Ofcourse, I'm not trying to make an aow or sbr but rather was wondering if it would be legal to make a pistol grip double barrel as long as the barrel is over 18" in length and the oal is greater than 26". My logic was if pump actions with pistol grips are leagal to own with out a stamp if the barrel length is over 18 and oal is over 26 would the same apply to a break action?

 

[Sam1911]

would the same apply to a break action?

You know, you can look up these laws and read them. They aren't terribly complicated. The type of action is not specified, only the lengths and definitions of terms.

Look here: http://frwebgate.access.gpo.gov/cgi-bin/usc.cgi?ACTION=BROWSE&TITLE=26USCSE&PDFS=YES

Chapter 53

Or HERE for the list of definitions.

 

[RX-178]

The short answer here that nobody seems to be inclined to give is:

Yes.

 

[oneounceload]

when you do it you will be left with a gap in between the barrels because you'll lose the filler plate.

HUH? The "filler plate"....also known as the "rib" should be solid between the two barrels for the full length.

Can it be done and done legally without a tax stamp? Yes, as mentioned - two lengths - 18+ and 26+ overall. The issue you'll find is that your barrels will be longer than the 18+ because you have action to help get the 26" overall length

You have a through bolt holding your stock on that might need altering, depending on the type of pistol grip. Personally, if I had to have a pistol grip like you're talking about, it would be the "bird's-head style - a little easier on your wrist

 

[rcmodel]

The "filler plate"....also known as the "rib" should be solid between the two barrels for the full length.

But it hardly ever is.
The top and bottom ribs are soldered to the barrels to hold them together.
Then a steel filler plug is soldered in the hole at the muzzle between the two ribs to fill the gap.

When you cut the barrels, there will be a gap that you will have to fill with something.

rc

 

[MCgunner]

Besides, I can think of not many more worthless firearms. My 28" sub 7 lb 12 gauge double kicks bad enough as it is. I wouldn't need a thumb latch stuck though the web of my thumb after firing this thing. God help you if you slip and fire both barrels. That happened to me once firing at a duck and I wound up on my butt in the mud with my buddies laughing at me. Sorta hurt, too.

Might wanna stick to 20 gauge for this project. Just sayin'.......

 

[oneounceload]

But it hardly ever is.
The top and bottom ribs are soldered to the barrels to hold them together.
Then a steel filler plug is soldered in the hole at the muzzle between the two ribs to fill the gap.

When you cut the barrels, there will be a gap that you will have to fill with something.

rc

Not on any guns I have owned or shot/borrowed. My O/U and SxS guns all have a solid rib between the barrels - now the vent rib on top of some O/Us are basically an upside down channel shape, but the ones between the barrels have been solid

 

[MAKster]

When you add a pistol grip to a pump action shotgun it still meets the 26" overall length requirement. Double barrel shotguns are around 3" shorter than pumps because they don't have a receiver so you'll need to keep an eye on the overall length.

 

[paul]

I say do it, stay within the law, and take pics!

If'n it looks cool, I may join you!

I would, however, use a 20ga, personally.

As mentioned above, a SxS has a really short action v. a pump or auto,
so's you may have longer bbl's than you wish.

But I do like the idea, and it is only money, after all...

p

 

[Brian Williams]

Yes, you can do it.
Yes, keep the overall length GREATER than 26".
Yes, keep the barrel length GREATER than 18".
Yes, there will be a gap if you cut the barrels.
BUT, Why?
What are you truly going to use this for that a good handgun or short rifle won't do better?
Your welcome Dave.

 

[coosbaycreep]

It's not a stoeger, but here's my stevens 311 that I hacked up the same way you're thinking of doing:





IIRC, the barrels are just under 20" and the OAL is almost 30" because I didn't want to go too short in case I ever tried to redo the grip so it's not so ugly looking and had to cut some more off it.

Obviously I did a really, really lousy job. I didn't even cut the barrels even. The gap between the barrels was filled in with some type of metal epoxy stuff, and still looks bad. The grip came out bad because I didn't take into account how the stock was held on when I started butchering my poor gun, and had to cut the bolt down and have it rewelded before I finished putting it back together, so it's not very comfortable either. The wood and steel were spray painted. I'm still trying to find a sterling silver or pewter skull from a necklace or something to attach as a front sight too, to complete the tactical hillbilly look.

As far as shooting it, it's pretty lame. I used to have a moss.500 PGO that busted my lip. After selling that one, I kept reading that the PG style shotguns kick more than the grip style that's on my SXS, so after getting this 311 in fairly rough shape at a decent price, I figured it'd be a good project since I always liked the looks of these kinda sawed off shotguns. Now I have a gun that's as ugly as it is useless....but I still think it's awesome.

Not sure how heavy the receiver is on the stoeger, but the stevens is WAY heavy and much more difficult to open without the extra weight of the longer barrels now. I haven't shot any standard power buck or slugs through it yet (mine is only a 2 3/4" chamber too BTW), but this one does seem to kick considerably less than the PGO 500 I had. That may be because of how heavy the receiver on the stevens is though.

I planned on carrying this thing in a scabbard (most likely a modified arrow quiver) on hikes, but because of the weight and uselessness of it, it mainly just sits in the safe and collects dust. I wish I had hacked up an NEF single shot instead, although that would be considerably less cool looking.

Depending on what you intend to use it for, you should think long and hard before you cut the stock down on your gun.

 

[cpirtle]

Not on any guns I have owned or shot/borrowed. My O/U and SxS guns all have a solid rib between the barrels - now the vent rib on top of some O/Us are basically an upside down channel shape, but the ones between the barrels have been solid

You buy nice shotguns.

Anything "worthy" of cutting down most likely has the filler plate I mentioned.

I've seen enough cut down Stoeger's and 311's in CAS to be able to say that with confidence. Also note coosbaycreep's 311.

 

[Revolver Ocelot]

if I had to have a pistol grip like you're talking about, it would be the "bird's-head style - a little easier on your wrist

thats what I was thinking, pluss a birds head style grip would add more to oal

What are you truly going to use this for that a good handgun or short rifle won't do better?

just as a novelty really

the stoeger already has a 20" barrel, so I wouldn't touch that, if I did, it'd be to cut it to 18.5 and I have that professionally done, I'll just be sure to leave enough on the grip so if I ever do it'll still be over the 26" overall, which judging by how coosbaycreep's came out it shouldn't be a problem. I'll be keeping the old stock and cutting down a new stock and bolt for this project so it can be returned to stock if need be.

 

[Sam1911]

You know, if you cut the barrels to 18.25" and then shortened the stock until the LOP was at the minimum comfortable length, you'd have a pretty compact package that was still very useful.

A double-barrel with 18" barrels is surprisingly compact, because you don't have the receiver length of a pump or auto making the gun longer. It's more like barrel-length + stock-length + maybe 2" for the lockwork == very small package.

 

[Revolver Ocelot]

you know sam, you might be on to something there, I wanted to make a pistol grip as kind of a novelty but maybe I could get something alittle more practical out of it. It'd be like a cross between a coach gun and a mare's leg

 

[Sam1911]

That sounds a bit like what I'm picturing. I've got very accomplished shooting pals who use a squared-up stance and prefer to work with guns with a length-of-pull as short as 11.5-12.5".

 

[Fred Fuller]

My mom is about five feet nothing, and for years her house gun was a Sears brand Stevens 311 in 20 gauge that I had cut to 18.5" barrels and shortened the stock to about a 12" LOP IIRC (it's locked up in the safe and I'm not gonna dig it out right now). Thing was, it fit her perfectly and she could use it well, till she got older and the recoil got to be too much for her to manage. But it's still a very useful little gun, far more so than it would be hacked to a pistol grip. Broken down, the stock/receiver half and the barrel half are pretty much the same length, which makes it nice to pack along as a 'just in case' gun. Now that Brenneke is making their KO slugs in 20 gauge, it's definitely good to go.

lpl

 

[DPris]

Although cutting the barrel back wasn't part of the original question, I agree with RC.
The ribs on some doubles are not solid nowdays, and you may very well need to fill in the space if you do cut the barrels back.
Denis

 

[Revolver Ocelot]

I've seen that the ribs tend to not be solid anymore, for that reason if I cut it down it would be done professionally and have the gap filled with metal instead of some kind of apoxy or similar.

 

[metalart]

Think about doing a bird's head grip instead of a pistol? I am just a fan of the look

 

[Revolver Ocelot]

Think about doing a bird's head grip instead of a pistol? I am just a fan of the look

that was the plan