pistol grip recoil
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Okiecruffler
Member
The wife brought home a Mossy with a pistol grip not too long back. Looked neat, so we took it out to give it a spin. Recoil with my light #9 loads wasn't "rip your hand off" but it was stout. I tried it with some good old OOBuck, and it was just brutal, at least twice that of my stout 44mag contender loads. Biggest problem with the pistol grip wasn't the recoil tho. I found that I could only hit what I was "aiming" at if I really took my time and thought about what I was doing. I doubt any BG would give me that much time. So fun to play with, not so fun to work with.
Dave McCracken
Moderator In Memoriam
Can you say, "Carpal Tunnel"?....
Kick varies from hard to vicious, depending on load and form.
Few Shotgun Cognescienti have PG only shotguns, and none use them for most work.
These look better on TV than feel.
Kick varies from hard to vicious, depending on load and form.
Few Shotgun Cognescienti have PG only shotguns, and none use them for most work.
These look better on TV than feel.
sm
member
A search will show MANY negative responses to PG only shotguns. I have made my displeasure WELL known in these threads.
There is a "place".
We have one member that bush pilots into Bear country. So a PG only with sling while fishing in Alaska works for him, easy to store in small bush plane. He will be the first to state for ALL other purposes he uses a full stock on a shotgun.
Armored Car Guards do not have any room in the vehicle. I have had to give instructions to these folks...they all hated it when quals or re quals came up. I hated teaching the durn thing. I always seemed to draw short straw.
Like I said , use the search function...you have been warned...
There is a "place".
We have one member that bush pilots into Bear country. So a PG only with sling while fishing in Alaska works for him, easy to store in small bush plane. He will be the first to state for ALL other purposes he uses a full stock on a shotgun.
Armored Car Guards do not have any room in the vehicle. I have had to give instructions to these folks...they all hated it when quals or re quals came up. I hated teaching the durn thing. I always seemed to draw short straw.
Like I said , use the search function...you have been warned...
Okiecruffler
Member
SM
You've obviously had more than abit of experience with these things, how do you teach people to hit what their aiming at? I figured you would shoot from the hip, makes recoil abit more managable, but unless I took just a stupid amount of time, I couldn't even come close.
You've obviously had more than abit of experience with these things, how do you teach people to hit what their aiming at? I figured you would shoot from the hip, makes recoil abit more managable, but unless I took just a stupid amount of time, I couldn't even come close.
sm
member
Well...Sometimes we don't
We were doing good to get the safety dealie and identify what "downrange" meant. The Manly Men were the toughest, the gals were great ( they hated the PG, at least listened , knew safety, MOA).
Understand the Armored Car folks have to shoot through ports. So using light light target loads we dealt with MOA. I used what I call a "push - pull" method. Think of a Weaver type stance with a shotgun crossed with...
Well you know when you from low gun, and in the process of mounting , that spot right before the buttstock is raised enough to start sliding into shoulder pocket. For a right handed shooter, left foot more forward, knee cracked, elbows " rigid but flexible' with the left elbow ~ 45* to ground.
Difficult to explain, the shotgun is close enough to body to control, far enough to use eye/hand coordination. "Roll" with but still in "control" of firearm.
I used the BB gun ( Brister method again) to re -aqaint the re quals, and start off the new folks with the form. Sometimes ( especially ladies) I used a .410 and doubled up on ear protection. Once the light bulb clicked on, and it did not take that long for the ladies, they seemed to have a "knack" for it. Men have preconcieved ideas and is hard to break them, video games and Hollyweird movies.
I then had some "ports" to shoot through. Sheetrock cut outs, and started with the BB gun, .410 then the light loads in the 12 ga.
At one time we had a 870 without a firing pin on purpose and a slew of Dummy rounds. Let them practice loading, cycling, and dryfire the gun. I think every Dept should have a dedicated dummy gun and dummy rds. Old Beater gun with Orange paint, but one of the best tools I can think of.
Many ladies bought a BB Gun and continued the practice on their own. Many dispelled fears of shotguns and learned to shoot quite well with full stocked guns.
MY method may not be "correct" like Dave and others train folks. I decided to start basic, go slow and instill a simple method that would allow one to practice safely on their own. Perhaps to get the interest and dedication up and make it fun. Their "job" can be a hassle , thankless and depressing one. Many folks never practice until time for the next re- qual ( sadly). Seems to be a lot of turnover as well.
Me - being me, I wanted to give something in a way that perhaps would allow them to take a more active interest in personal safety for themselves even if they left the job. Many woman did, I feel better about that.
I know - I have some weird ideas and perspectives on things.
We were doing good to get the safety dealie and identify what "downrange" meant. The Manly Men were the toughest, the gals were great ( they hated the PG, at least listened , knew safety, MOA).
Understand the Armored Car folks have to shoot through ports. So using light light target loads we dealt with MOA. I used what I call a "push - pull" method. Think of a Weaver type stance with a shotgun crossed with...
Well you know when you from low gun, and in the process of mounting , that spot right before the buttstock is raised enough to start sliding into shoulder pocket. For a right handed shooter, left foot more forward, knee cracked, elbows " rigid but flexible' with the left elbow ~ 45* to ground.
Difficult to explain, the shotgun is close enough to body to control, far enough to use eye/hand coordination. "Roll" with but still in "control" of firearm.
I used the BB gun ( Brister method again) to re -aqaint the re quals, and start off the new folks with the form. Sometimes ( especially ladies) I used a .410 and doubled up on ear protection. Once the light bulb clicked on, and it did not take that long for the ladies, they seemed to have a "knack" for it. Men have preconcieved ideas and is hard to break them, video games and Hollyweird movies.
I then had some "ports" to shoot through. Sheetrock cut outs, and started with the BB gun, .410 then the light loads in the 12 ga.
At one time we had a 870 without a firing pin on purpose and a slew of Dummy rounds. Let them practice loading, cycling, and dryfire the gun. I think every Dept should have a dedicated dummy gun and dummy rds. Old Beater gun with Orange paint, but one of the best tools I can think of.
Many ladies bought a BB Gun and continued the practice on their own. Many dispelled fears of shotguns and learned to shoot quite well with full stocked guns.
MY method may not be "correct" like Dave and others train folks. I decided to start basic, go slow and instill a simple method that would allow one to practice safely on their own. Perhaps to get the interest and dedication up and make it fun. Their "job" can be a hassle , thankless and depressing one. Many folks never practice until time for the next re- qual ( sadly). Seems to be a lot of turnover as well.
Me - being me, I wanted to give something in a way that perhaps would allow them to take a more active interest in personal safety for themselves even if they left the job. Many woman did, I feel better about that.
I know - I have some weird ideas and perspectives on things.
Okiecruffler
Member
Sounds like you have a handle on training and the whole thinking outside the box thing. I'm sure that someone could get quite good with a PG with enough practice, but that's the rub. The damn thing doesn't lend itself to spending large amounts of time practicing with. Even with reduced loads where the recoil was managable, I was done after 25 rds or so. Still, kinda fun to play with.
Badger Arms
Member
Of course, what PG shotgun thread would be complete without a few comments from your resident PG shotgun apologist. For those of you who have been burned in the past, note that not all PG's are created equal. There are, in the ranks of PG's, two that I would consider adequate. The Pachmayr is adequate, and the Hogue is downright comfortable with all but the stoutest of loads. Know that you don't want to go through more than two boxes with the Hogue, one box with the Packy, and maybe one or two shots with any plastic grip. The Hogue has 'sorbathane' in the web area. This is the same material they use on the S&W Model 500 grips.
Here are my fishing tools of the trade. The rubber grips on all three tools are very handy for cold, wet hands. I don't have a rubber coated foregrip on my shotty because it don't pull out of its scabbard very well that way.
Here are my fishing tools of the trade. The rubber grips on all three tools are very handy for cold, wet hands. I don't have a rubber coated foregrip on my shotty because it don't pull out of its scabbard very well that way.
Attachments
sm
member
Well...I didn't just want come right out and name , names or nothing...
Some of us knew, some of us - like me pay attention to your insights.
I want folks to look at Badger's Pic again, and re -read his post.
There are reasons why that gun has a wood forearm and The pistol grip is the one it is.
Sorry, but you will have to work for the answers, I am not going to repeat the reasons.
NO offense - IF the first thought that came to mind was "Damn thing is ugly" , "Why didn't he use a synthetic forearm", Or " It don't look tactical".
I seriously question your need for a firearm, much less a PG only one, if you have ever shot much , or have the willingness to learn.
Badger I like and respect your set- up. Perhaps you can share better than I how YOU use one in your enviroment.
Okie
I'm no big deal , Badger Dave and many others are better qualified.
I was asked to observe and give input as to why students were having trouble on learning some stuff. I observed, listened and like an idiot -opened my big mouth.
Back up the Armored Car at a private range. Hot, humid, summer day , and I don the bullet proof vest and other gear as issued, and hop in the back of the truck. Educational.
IN real life the engine may die and so we kill the engine. It gets real hot real quick trying to shoot through a port. Since "I wanted to know" , we do some reproductions - what ifs. Popped smoke ,back there that makes shooting interesting, Pepper Spray added to that...
I have a lot of respect for those that have to use this gear in real life.
I need to do a comparison up Badger's Way. It has to be cooler...don't tell me the Bears carry Pepper spray...
Okiecruffler
Member
Badger
I must admit, she don't look tactical, and she's far from pretty, but that thing looks like a pitbull with it's ears back and teeth beared. definately a specialized tool for a specialized job. Glad the only thing I have to deal with on a fishing trip is gar.
I must admit, she don't look tactical, and she's far from pretty, but that thing looks like a pitbull with it's ears back and teeth beared. definately a specialized tool for a specialized job. Glad the only thing I have to deal with on a fishing trip is gar.
Dionysusigma
Member
What about a combination of a PG with a pistol-grip forend? Does this help recoil, or does it just turn it into an AOW?
sm
member
Dionysusigma
I have very limited experience with a pistol grip forend with a full stock.
Understand / remember my experiences are all I can share. My use and applications for the shotgun goes way back with a lot rds downrange.
Personally , for me-
The regular full stock shotgun is the most versatile, less percieved recoil, most accurate . Matters not if single shot, SxS, O/U, pump or semi.
Matters little if English, semi or full pistol grip . In this context I am referring to the style of or absence of "bump" where shooting hand is placed on a fullstock gun .
The straighter the stock , as a rule, to shooter's shoulder the less percieved recoil. The better the hands are "in line" to each other the better one handles the gun quicker , more effectively adapts to changes in target aquisition, better able to fell what looked at.
Balance of gun in relation to placement of hands is another factor. Rule of thumb is the closer balance of firarm to "center of hand placement" the better.
I prefer the firearm to balance a wee tad ahead of hands. I am a "swing through" or "pass shooter". For me, this allows a more smooth mount of gun to face then shoulder, keeps my swing smooth and the follow though smooth ( less chance to stop the swing).
So when I speak of gun fit , I am taking all this into consideration along with some other stuff.
So for me , and my "preferences" or "distaste" for a way a gun is set up is based on my bias from years of Competition, hunting and the like.
I believe in redundency in platforms. If I always do what I have always done then habit , muscle memory kicks in. If /when I have to think is when things get goofed up.
Missing a clay bird, a feathered or fur critter is one thing. If things get serious, I don't - can't - not a good time to think and fumble.
Perhaps this better explains why I want the density of wood stocks, no mag extensions, or side saddles. Reliability and gun fit is a big deal to me.
I can do these add ons very well. I have run a straight using one,( 100 at skeet) 1187 all tricked out with a surefire light to boot. IIRC weight of gun was ~ 11 #'s This was more LUCK and maybe a little credit goes to just having shot a lot. I had to add moleskin to raise the syn stock to fit me, I had to "shoot dirt" to see POA/ POI - this caused me to have to adapt myself to gun and "work a bit harder". I had to think. I had the stamina already. I had already shot 100 rds with my 28 ga before I did this full set up gun.
I am a LOT quicker with a #7 1/4 to 9 # gun though. ( 12 ga) Gimmee a 6- 7# 28 ga in O/U and that is my fastest shooting. ( Citori especially)
Like I said, I am wired the way I am .
I know - I have some weird ideas and perspectives on things.
Regards,
Steve
I have very limited experience with a pistol grip forend with a full stock.
Understand / remember my experiences are all I can share. My use and applications for the shotgun goes way back with a lot rds downrange.
Personally , for me-
The regular full stock shotgun is the most versatile, less percieved recoil, most accurate . Matters not if single shot, SxS, O/U, pump or semi.
Matters little if English, semi or full pistol grip . In this context I am referring to the style of or absence of "bump" where shooting hand is placed on a fullstock gun .
The straighter the stock , as a rule, to shooter's shoulder the less percieved recoil. The better the hands are "in line" to each other the better one handles the gun quicker , more effectively adapts to changes in target aquisition, better able to fell what looked at.
Balance of gun in relation to placement of hands is another factor. Rule of thumb is the closer balance of firarm to "center of hand placement" the better.
I prefer the firearm to balance a wee tad ahead of hands. I am a "swing through" or "pass shooter". For me, this allows a more smooth mount of gun to face then shoulder, keeps my swing smooth and the follow though smooth ( less chance to stop the swing).
So when I speak of gun fit , I am taking all this into consideration along with some other stuff.
So for me , and my "preferences" or "distaste" for a way a gun is set up is based on my bias from years of Competition, hunting and the like.
I believe in redundency in platforms. If I always do what I have always done then habit , muscle memory kicks in. If /when I have to think is when things get goofed up.
Missing a clay bird, a feathered or fur critter is one thing. If things get serious, I don't - can't - not a good time to think and fumble.
Perhaps this better explains why I want the density of wood stocks, no mag extensions, or side saddles. Reliability and gun fit is a big deal to me.
I can do these add ons very well. I have run a straight using one,( 100 at skeet) 1187 all tricked out with a surefire light to boot. IIRC weight of gun was ~ 11 #'s This was more LUCK and maybe a little credit goes to just having shot a lot. I had to add moleskin to raise the syn stock to fit me, I had to "shoot dirt" to see POA/ POI - this caused me to have to adapt myself to gun and "work a bit harder". I had to think. I had the stamina already. I had already shot 100 rds with my 28 ga before I did this full set up gun.
I am a LOT quicker with a #7 1/4 to 9 # gun though. ( 12 ga) Gimmee a 6- 7# 28 ga in O/U and that is my fastest shooting. ( Citori especially)
Like I said, I am wired the way I am .
I know - I have some weird ideas and perspectives on things.
Regards,
Steve
Okiecruffler
Member
This is second hand heresay mind you
But I've heard that the pistolgrip fore arms tend to cause the fore arm to bind up during cycling, due to the hands natural tendancy to pull the thing abit out of line, ie the rear (end, part closest the reciever) moves back (like it's supposed to) but also up (like it's not supposed to). But I've never played with one, so that info is worth at least half of what you paid for it.
But I've heard that the pistolgrip fore arms tend to cause the fore arm to bind up during cycling, due to the hands natural tendancy to pull the thing abit out of line, ie the rear (end, part closest the reciever) moves back (like it's supposed to) but also up (like it's not supposed to). But I've never played with one, so that info is worth at least half of what you paid for it.
Badger Arms
Member
To me, a PG fore-end has to be the most useless piece of equipment ever devised for a Shotgun. It robs you of the natural pointing ability of having the fore-end aligned with the barrel. It doesn't help you pump any, in fact it's awkward both to hold and to pump. Apart from super-short barrels (to keep the hand from jumping in front of the muzzle, I can see absolutely no utility in foregrips.
One really bad thing they do is limit where and how you can carry the gun. They get in the way and are an all-around pain.
One really bad thing they do is limit where and how you can carry the gun. They get in the way and are an all-around pain.
Wyobuckaroo
Member
- Joined
- Dec 25, 2002
- Messages
- 49
Howdy
My ecperience with pistol grips, on either the butt end or forearm, is that they are stricktly a Hollywood thing. Brutal to shoot and control.
Totaly useless, in my opinion
My ecperience with pistol grips, on either the butt end or forearm, is that they are stricktly a Hollywood thing. Brutal to shoot and control.
Totaly useless, in my opinion
The only pistol grip I'd ever consider using is the recoil-reducing Knoxx Industries Copstock folding stock. It has the recoil reducer in the grip, and from what I hear is actually "controllable" although obviously, accuracy is much better with the stock folded open. It's a top folder, so no SideSaddle.
Bill St. Clair
Member
I have a pistol-grip Winchester 1300 12 gauge. Range time with it proved that I could not hold on to the forearm while firing, so I added a forearm pistol grip. I shoot it with left arm locked at full extension holding the forearm grip and right hand on the pistol grip and trigger with elbow bent and out at a 45 degree angle. 00 buck recoil is stout, but manageable, as long as I remember to press the front grip firmly into the web between my left thumb and forefinger. Slugs are a piece of cake. Now I'm a pretty stout guy, about 240 pounds, so those of lighter build might have a harder time of it. It's taken some practice to learn how to look down the barrel and hit the target with slugs (I've been using a 100 yard small-arm bullseye, haven't tried the silhouettes yet), but I can do it pretty well at 20 yards, and I always hit the target with at least a few pellets in the 00 buck load I use (Remington's 12SB00: 12 pellets at 1290 fps in a 2 3/4" shell). At typical self-defense ranges, i.e. inside my house, I doubt I'd have any problem with minute of goblin.
Click here for a photo of the shotgun, which no longer sports the sling in this picture, it being too noisy and likely to catch on something.
One nice thing about the front grip is that it allows the gun to be carried muzzle down with the left hand. The rear grip rides just beneath the left armpit. This leaves the right hand free. I have never had a problem cycling the action. It just works.
Click here for a photo of the shotgun, which no longer sports the sling in this picture, it being too noisy and likely to catch on something.
One nice thing about the front grip is that it allows the gun to be carried muzzle down with the left hand. The rear grip rides just beneath the left armpit. This leaves the right hand free. I have never had a problem cycling the action. It just works.
Badger Arms
Member
Agreed about the laser for Home Defense, but only if you also have a light to identify the target. The M6 combo unit is a wonderful tool. My problem with the PG for home defense is that, looking at your house, you have absolutely tons of room, even in a trailer. You can maneuver the shotgun everywhere with a full stock that you can with a PG. Try it... when the wife and kids are away, walk around your house with your full-stock shotgun and point in every conceivable direction. Remember, you have to LOOK at your target. Funny thing happens when you look at your target, generally you have to bring the shotgun closer to your body and your elbow inevitably ends up where the end of the butt would be anyhow.
What happens is that your forearm and the buttstock become one and that greatly helps with recoil and control when shooting away from the shoulder. Of course, that's all a substitute. As soon as you are physically able, put that gun up to your shoulder! When clearing a house, point the muzzle slightly down so you can increase your field of view. When turning corners, lead with the muzzle pointed nearly straight down and turn the corner quickly whipping the muzzle up. In a few situations, you must bring the shotgun off the shoulder, but keep it close to the forearm.
Retention is a primary concern when utilizing a PG shotgun. Without that stock as a lever, the BG has a distinct advantage. If you MUST use a PG For home defense because you've ignored what others tell you, use a very good sling and keep a death grip on the PG and the fore end.
I'll restate, the only use for a PG shotgun is if you have a severe limitation in regards to space and/or weight. The certain instances when I feel a PG shotgun is advisable are Fishing in Bear Country, snowmachining (snowmobile for those in the lesser 48), 4-Wheeling, and perhaps an Airplane. Even then, you might want to consider a good folding stock or takedown case so you can have a real shotgun when you land.
What happens is that your forearm and the buttstock become one and that greatly helps with recoil and control when shooting away from the shoulder. Of course, that's all a substitute. As soon as you are physically able, put that gun up to your shoulder! When clearing a house, point the muzzle slightly down so you can increase your field of view. When turning corners, lead with the muzzle pointed nearly straight down and turn the corner quickly whipping the muzzle up. In a few situations, you must bring the shotgun off the shoulder, but keep it close to the forearm.
Retention is a primary concern when utilizing a PG shotgun. Without that stock as a lever, the BG has a distinct advantage. If you MUST use a PG For home defense because you've ignored what others tell you, use a very good sling and keep a death grip on the PG and the fore end.
I'll restate, the only use for a PG shotgun is if you have a severe limitation in regards to space and/or weight. The certain instances when I feel a PG shotgun is advisable are Fishing in Bear Country, snowmachining (snowmobile for those in the lesser 48), 4-Wheeling, and perhaps an Airplane. Even then, you might want to consider a good folding stock or takedown case so you can have a real shotgun when you land.
Stormin:
I was pleasantly surprised with the recoil of my Mossberg Mod. 88 when I put the factory-supplied pistol grip on it; it really wasn't bad at all and was lots of fun to shoot.
However, common sense and the words of wisdom from folks here prevailed and I put the full stock back on.
The only real advantage a PG-only offers is reduced length. It makes it more difficult to aim, and I wouldn't want to bet on my ability to point-aim from the waist under stress.
Not only that, but what if you needed to take a shot at some distance with your shottie? You ain't doing that with a PG-only!
If you are really fixated on a PG for your shotgun, get a combo PG and full stock (like on an AR).
Those are functional and tacticool.
I was pleasantly surprised with the recoil of my Mossberg Mod. 88 when I put the factory-supplied pistol grip on it; it really wasn't bad at all and was lots of fun to shoot.
However, common sense and the words of wisdom from folks here prevailed and I put the full stock back on.
The only real advantage a PG-only offers is reduced length. It makes it more difficult to aim, and I wouldn't want to bet on my ability to point-aim from the waist under stress.
Not only that, but what if you needed to take a shot at some distance with your shottie? You ain't doing that with a PG-only!
If you are really fixated on a PG for your shotgun, get a combo PG and full stock (like on an AR).
Those are functional and tacticool.
One more thing:
Anyone who says "carpal tunnel" when discussing PG-only shotties, I wonder:
a) If you've ever really fired a PG-only shottie
b) *** kind of loads you are using if you really have.
My PG-only mossy (when I had the PG-only attached) had a good kick, but nothing to cry about.
Anyone who says "carpal tunnel" when discussing PG-only shotties, I wonder:
a) If you've ever really fired a PG-only shottie
b) *** kind of loads you are using if you really have.
My PG-only mossy (when I had the PG-only attached) had a good kick, but nothing to cry about.
sm
member
I'd run about anywhere from 50 - 200 rds a day with one teaching sometimes. From Target loads to buckshot and slugs.
I felt much better when I had shot these amounts of rds with a full stocked gun. I mean I've shot 14 rds of skeet in one day and felt better. I'm not recoil sensitive per se either.
I tested 200 rds of slugs through a 870 full stock gun - no problem.
I felt much better when I had shot these amounts of rds with a full stocked gun. I mean I've shot 14 rds of skeet in one day and felt better. I'm not recoil sensitive per se either.
I tested 200 rds of slugs through a 870 full stock gun - no problem.
Denny Hansen
Member
PG shotguns are good for specialized purposes. I carried an 870 with a pistol grip and 12 inch barrel as a breaching tool back in the day. Keep in mind I was on a relatively small SWAT team with only 10 members and we had no dedicated breacher. After hinges/locks were blown, the shotgun was slung over the back and I went to the primary which was an MP5 at the time. Dedicated breachers on most teams will not use PG only equipped shotguns for the same reasons that most folks here frown on them.
To answer Drjones, question, yes I have fired them--a lot. Yes, they begin to hurt like hell after repeated firing. Outside of Avon rounds we used W-W slugs and Federal buckshot as we were after dangerous two-legged predators.
Never used one with birdshot to hip shoot tin cans, so I can't comment on the recreational use of PG equipped shotguns.
Denny
To answer Drjones, question, yes I have fired them--a lot. Yes, they begin to hurt like hell after repeated firing. Outside of Avon rounds we used W-W slugs and Federal buckshot as we were after dangerous two-legged predators.
Never used one with birdshot to hip shoot tin cans, so I can't comment on the recreational use of PG equipped shotguns.
Denny
sm
member
Two replies about the PG only and hurt.
One from a well known indivudual that was LEO, on a SWAT team and continues to train.
The other from a dumb civilian whom has shot competitions ,hunted, and was asked to assist in teaching the PG only to LEO, security and armored car guards.
I have had a stock break on a rifle before, I have shot a full stocked shotgun with a cracked stock that broke upon firing. Not that I wish to have these happen again...
Thank goodness for light fingerless gloves. I was shooting a new PG only Mossy with some Rem 00 buck, to test gun and loads. Don't ask how or what happened - I don't really know. I do know that dealie about pressures akin to a grenade is true.
The grip was tight on the gun - I know I checked that. That sucker must have had a hairline crack because the pain from breaking went all the way to my shooting shoulder. Bruised my hand but good, swelling hit fast...glove took the brunt of grip that came apart.
While I was cussing up a storm I practiced unloading a shotgun and making safe weak handed...not the way I suggest one go about this drill btw...
One from a well known indivudual that was LEO, on a SWAT team and continues to train.
The other from a dumb civilian whom has shot competitions ,hunted, and was asked to assist in teaching the PG only to LEO, security and armored car guards.
I have had a stock break on a rifle before, I have shot a full stocked shotgun with a cracked stock that broke upon firing. Not that I wish to have these happen again...
Thank goodness for light fingerless gloves. I was shooting a new PG only Mossy with some Rem 00 buck, to test gun and loads. Don't ask how or what happened - I don't really know. I do know that dealie about pressures akin to a grenade is true.
The grip was tight on the gun - I know I checked that. That sucker must have had a hairline crack because the pain from breaking went all the way to my shooting shoulder. Bruised my hand but good, swelling hit fast...glove took the brunt of grip that came apart.
While I was cussing up a storm I practiced unloading a shotgun and making safe weak handed...not the way I suggest one go about this drill btw...
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