please, reassembly help? - ASM Wells Fargo .31

[oldcodger]

I built it from the CVA kit in 1985. Since I signed up on THR a few weeks ago, and found this hangout to my liking, I decided to disassemble, clean and lube it, and try to find out on my own (no such success as yet) why the cylinder timing has never been good, although it has great lockup as the hammer is slowly drawn back, until it unlocks to allow the hand to advance the cylinder.

At full cock, lockup is such that the cylinder will not rotate counter-clockwise, but does not lock enough to prevent a little rotation clockwise, maybe 1/8" or so at the outer diameter of the cylinder.

From full-cock, and controlled release of the hammer, the cylinder sometimes rotates a bit counterclockwise, then clockwise to proper alignment, but NOT properly locked until just before the hammer should impact the cap... - and because of this, I have not yet fired the piece.

In preparation for the original assembly, I very lightly stoned burrs off the engagement surfaces on the sides of the bolt. I'm one of those "measure nineteen times - cut once" guys. This was with a very hard India stone. Fit of the bolt into the cylinder recesses is good - there's no "slop", and I'm happy with that.

I have thoroughly cleaned the frame and internal parts, and applied a thin coat of Ballistol.

Down to my questions -- I seem to have lost the CVA asssembly instructions, so I wondered - I ask that someone clue me as to the correctness of this assembly-

Should the bolt be installed before installing the hand/spring/hammer assembly, or should I place the hand and spring into hammer, and insert had in its' channel while positioning the hammer, and then install the hammer screw.

or is the bolt installed first, with its' screw ?

I hope this is clear.

Gotta run out for a few, and will check back in shortly.

I 'preciate it !

oc
(Tom)

 

[Fingers McGee]

Hammer & hand then screw, then bolt & screw, then trigger & screw.

 

[oldcodger]

Thanks, Fingers.

I'll give that a pop - does it seem that maybe some of the internal parts might not have been bumpin' into one another as they were intended to, providing the symptoms I've described, and maybe from improper assembly sequence?

After all, it is a brass-framed ASM, and old, but I have another, almost identical except for markings on it, and it seems to function all but perfectly.

I'm beholdin' to ya !

oc
SFC, USA, Ret.
NRA Member
Gen'l Roustabout

 

[Fingers McGee]

Sounds like the hand is not advancing the cylinder far enough for the bolt to fully drop into the cylinder notch when the hammer comes to full cock. Trying to hand turn the cylinder counterclockwise and not being able to is the hand seated in the ratchet. Turning the cylinder clockwise is turning the cylinder away from the hand till the bolt pops into the notch.

 

[rdstrain49]

Perhaps the bolt is not fit properly? Too wide, wrong angle.

 

[oldcodger]

Thanks, Folks...

I'm disassembling it now, and will first try the proper reassembly sequence.

Now reassembled as suggested by Fingers McGee: hand and hammer and screw,
bolt and screw, trigger and screw. Installed the bolt and trigger spring and screw,
and rotation and lockup feels correct. Good lockup when it should be locked, and
releases at the appropriate time.

Completed reassembly and the symptoms are the same...good lockup as the hammer is slightly cocked, half-cock releases the cylinder, full cock again locks against CCW rotation, but CW rotation is still there.

here's FMcG's latest info:
Sounds like the hand is not advancing the cylinder far enough for the bolt to fully drop into the cylinder notch when the hammer comes to full cock. Trying to hand turn the cylinder counterclockwise and not being able to is the hand seated in the ratchet. Turning the cylinder clockwise is turning the cylinder away from the hand till the bolt pops into the notch.

So should I now remove the hand and spring from the hammer and reassemble, to determine if lockup is good at full cock- which would indicate to me, if I understand the dynamics of the cocking and locking cycle, that the hand is maybe a touch too long. If the hand is removed, and unlocking is normal on cocking, while manually rotating the cylinder to achieve full lock at full cock, it seems to me that the hand is rotating the cylinder slightly past the normal full-cock lockup of the bolt into the cylinder.

by the way, stripped down, the bolt fit into the cylinder notches has been good, and alignment seems right. The cylinder notches are not peened, and are consistently at about (old eyes here) 1.150 wide, and the bolt lug 1.145 or so.
Could it be that the cylinder notches are not deep enough?
Also, there is a little bit of bevel at the top of the bolt, only in the front, and going from left to right as viewed from the rear. That's the way it was when new.

I forgot to add that there has been no "dry firing", except three cylinders of caps, just to assure ignition.

There's virtually no wobble of the bolt on its' screw, in response to rdstrain49, and lockup, when it locks up, is very firm.

I've reviewed the Uberti and Pietta tuneup guide pdfs. Seems all is ok in relation to the info supplied there.. maybe it's just a "hand issue"

Maybe I should put together a video and post it with narration.. might be worth a "shot".. (*groan*)

Drat, I hope that's clear; many thanks for the help !

Tom

 

[oldcodger]

bump

Thanks!

 

[Fingers McGee]

The hand not advancing the cylinder for the bolt to drop into the notch would be an indication that the hand is too short, not too long. If the bolt dropped & locked up the cylinder before the hammer went to full cock would indicate a too long hand.

 

[oldcodger]

Thank you, now I'm beginning to appreciate the timing sequence now for what it is.
sort of comparable to a four-cycle engine or a 1911. Y'know,
some of those things comin' a bit later on..

so now I'll switch out a few parts and see what I've
got !

oc