Autodidactic
Member
- Joined
- Sep 19, 2021
- Messages
- 1,023
True, I like that challenge. I shoot two snubbies a few times a month.
Pocket guns. 380 versus 38 special snub
- Thread starter CDW4ME
- Start date
1KPerDay
Member
Autodidactic
Member
- Joined
- Sep 19, 2021
- Messages
- 1,023
Right, that’s why a ‘two inch revolver barrel’ is more like a 3
1KPerDay
Member
Measure a 4" barreled revolver and a 5" barreled auto from the breech face and get back to me
Autodidactic
Member
- Joined
- Sep 19, 2021
- Messages
- 1,023
Not from breech. I mean revolvers functionally have longer ‘barrels’ than stated. Adding the cylinder, then subtracting let’s say 10% for cylinder gap, is more realistic. A 1 7/8 barrel is more like a 2.5 inch including cylinder. An auto loader includes the portion taken up by the bullet.
wcwhitey
Member
- Joined
- Dec 30, 2006
- Messages
- 2,814
I have read and heard that a cylinder gap will forfeit approximately 50 fps per thousand. I have no way to test or confirm that but if true it’s not a whole bunch. Point is that it’s really not the barrels length on a snubby vs. sub compact 9 I think it’s kind of a wash. It is really that the .38, .32 Long and .44 Special are descendent from the black powder era. They were never speedy and make bullet choice difficult. We have guns that are +P but manufacturers are limited to SAAMI Specs which makes it even more difficult for them to get both expansion and penetration. It’s not the new guns that would care if the pressure was a few thousand higher it’s the 100 year old ones that nobody wants to get sued over. Seems like we get new barn storming cartridges all the time like the .30 Super Carry . Seems like a cool cartridge and all but it’s a big investment for an extra 2 shots. Too powerful for a sub compact like an LCP in pressure and recoil. With all the data out there and good bullet designs it would seem easy to load this round to somewhere in between what it is and the .380 at 1050/1100 guaranteeing good penetration and expansion while keeping pressure and recoil manageable. This would allow it to work in guns everyone is looking for, small and light. Same for revolvers. .32 H&R got nerfed, then .327 came out. Another great cartridge but somewhere in the middle would make it a winner. Easy to shoot and not living in the margins of expansion and penetration like the H&R. Just a few ramblings.
Last edited:
CoalTrain49
Member
I carried a HK model 4 380 back about 20 years ago. Ammo has improved since then so definitely would carry one again. I just don't have a 380 these days. I do have a snub 38 Spl and occasionally carry it. Both are close-range-better-than-a-knife solutions. I'm not overly concerned about penetration or FBI standards. 12" penetration is fine with me. Heck, I don't even care if the bullet expands. Wad cutters work for SD in revolvers at short ranges. I don't expect anyone to agree with me but I feel comfortable there. When you consider only about 5% of the public carry, I'm miles ahead of 95% of everyone walking around out there. I'm the old guy you just want leave alone. Find another pigeon.
Not if it doesn’t go off – which is far less likely with a revolver.
I’ll stay with my 642.
Autodidactic
Member
- Joined
- Sep 19, 2021
- Messages
- 1,023
With non hollowpoints both .380 and .38 penetrate just fine, or hollowpoints that don't expand.
Last edited:
Hangingrock
Member
I have a S&W M640-38Spl (Original Issue) marked TESTED FOR +P+. I've never had a problem with it .
tactikel
Member
Understand the niche each fulfills. My LCP gen1 @ 9.6 oz will fit into the cellphone pocket of every outer garment I own. With proper ammunition (Lehigh, Gold Dots, XTPs, etc) it will perform to FBI specs.
Autodidactic
Member
- Joined
- Sep 19, 2021
- Messages
- 1,023
Frankly, with either and good ammunition, I feel armed for basic outings like going to the store, work etc.
For .380 I keep Critical Defense in there, which apparently does well in tests and is reliable. For .38, I have either FBI load, Federal Punch +P, Speer Gold Dot +P, or maybe wadcutters. Any of these options will work at short range.
Basically, when my .380 Bodyguard is clean and oiled, it's my number 1 carry as it's so small. If I've taken it to the range and it hasn't been cleaned yet, or I want to change it up, the 642.
For .380 I keep Critical Defense in there, which apparently does well in tests and is reliable. For .38, I have either FBI load, Federal Punch +P, Speer Gold Dot +P, or maybe wadcutters. Any of these options will work at short range.
Basically, when my .380 Bodyguard is clean and oiled, it's my number 1 carry as it's so small. If I've taken it to the range and it hasn't been cleaned yet, or I want to change it up, the 642.
In a semi auto, part of what is considered barrel length is actually the chamber, so a 3 inch barrel on a semi auto 380 includes over .6” of chamber
I used to carry 2-inch 38 Special snubs for backup and pocket carry when they were the best technology available for those roles. But, at least in my hands, they are far outclassed today by guns in the Glock 42/Sig P365-380 size range .380s in terms of capacity, ease of reloading, accuracy and rate of fire. If I had to go into a fight armed with the 2" snub or either of the latter two .380s, I would pick the .380 and a couple of spare magazines without a doubt. I'd be embarrassed to show up at an IDPA match with a pocket snub, but it wouldn't bother me at all to show up with my preferred .380s.
As far as ammo is concerned, the first purpose of self-defense ammo is to be a hole puncher against dangerous threats, not to look good on social media with a nice mushroom when fired against the most forgiving media (bare gel and cloth covered gel). Pick something that will penetrate bone, cell phones, pocket clutter, etc. and then go deep enough to shut down the CNS. Go out and shoot a variety of media rather than relying on YouTube. Prepare to be surprised.
As far as ammo is concerned, the first purpose of self-defense ammo is to be a hole puncher against dangerous threats, not to look good on social media with a nice mushroom when fired against the most forgiving media (bare gel and cloth covered gel). Pick something that will penetrate bone, cell phones, pocket clutter, etc. and then go deep enough to shut down the CNS. Go out and shoot a variety of media rather than relying on YouTube. Prepare to be surprised.
Mark 40
Member
I've flipped and flopped on this issue over the years regarding my CCW. Can no longer shoot .38 SPL for long/well due to sensitivity to recoil. That is even with an SP-101 and wadcutters, yikes! Then decided to downsize to a 327 and/or 32 H&R revolver using 32 S&WL. No issues there.
Have carried a KT P32 and Beretta Pico and shot them decently. However the pistol I've shot best/competently/confidently is a 380ACP SIG P238. The softish recoil impulse is not an issue and my accuracy with it is the best of the bunch.
Sticking to the mantra of carrying the largest caliber used most effectively and competently the P238 is back in pocket.
Have carried a KT P32 and Beretta Pico and shot them decently. However the pistol I've shot best/competently/confidently is a 380ACP SIG P238. The softish recoil impulse is not an issue and my accuracy with it is the best of the bunch.
Sticking to the mantra of carrying the largest caliber used most effectively and competently the P238 is back in pocket.
Armored farmer
Member
Thank you for suggesting that everyone see for themselves what their boutique, scary named ammo will do for them. I have been very disappointed with my findings in some pretty darn simple tests. I hate to name names...so I wont......
I wont.....
Yeah I will. Hornady critical defense that didn't pass through a 2 liter bottle of water. No expansion either. I could have used the bullet again.
Federal HST(my choice) thst didn't penetrate a whitetail skull form point-blank range.
Autodidactic
Member
- Joined
- Sep 19, 2021
- Messages
- 1,023
I think this is why many people advocate FMJ for anything under .38 special (.380, .32 etc). .38 special may not expand in some cases, but it will penetrate fine due to higher mass (than .380) in most cases. That's one reason I like the FBI load. It may or may not expand out of a snubby, but for darn sure a +P 158 grain projectile will penetrate just fine.
Edit, I'm surprised the Critical Defense and HST performed so poorly, considering both are well regarded usually.
Last edited:
1KPerDay
Member
Personally I’ve had FAR more light strikes or failures to fire with center fire revolvers than I have with center fire autos.
I recently shot my 642 in a carry gun match that I also shot with my G42 and 26. I was marginally more accurate with the two semis. However, I haven't shot the 642 as much as them. So close up, not a big difference. "A" zone hits are easy with both. Of course, under real world stress - who knows. However, reloading is slower. G26 is the faster with a 10 round mag. The other two serve me well (love that cliche) as pocket guns when dress and NPE rules.
Shot the 642 with belt carried speed loaders. So you have to have about 4 in an uncomfortable row to match a couple of low profile Glock mags. Slower to use and I do have the reload pattern down. Trained and took classes with the 642, so not helpless in the one opponent realm.
The recoil of the 38 SPL does not bother my old hands yet. Glad I don't shoot with my knees, they are screwed up.
Shot the 642 with belt carried speed loaders. So you have to have about 4 in an uncomfortable row to match a couple of low profile Glock mags. Slower to use and I do have the reload pattern down. Trained and took classes with the 642, so not helpless in the one opponent realm.
The recoil of the 38 SPL does not bother my old hands yet. Glad I don't shoot with my knees, they are screwed up.
I much prefer a heavy load (or should we call it standard?) .38 special in my Ruger LCR for terminal effect but after a year without shooting I fared better with my Beretta Pico .380. I am as surprised as anyone. The Pico has been much maligned for its tiny grip and heavy DAO trigger but for some reason, shooting stone cold and out of practice, it was more accurate for me. Both are difficult guns to shoot by their own merits. The LCR falls to hand much better and carries a heavier payload but it also doesn't slip into a pocket the same way. Difficult choice, but shootability is a high criteria.
I personally am not an advocate of buying "DEFENSE AMMO" for two reasons. First, too expensive to train with and secondly, I use what I practice with day in and day out. Shooting thousands of rounds of what I practice with provides me with the knowledge and experience in what I can expect from my rounds performance. Not an advocate of hollow rounds either especially when it is from a small caliber round. In my .380 that I use I like using Sig Sauer 100 gr. rounds.
Similar threads
