Possession of rifle brass in NJ

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guitarguy314

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Hello

I took my friend from New Jersey shooting earlier today. He asked if he could have one of my .45-70 brass to take as a souvenir.

Can he possess this in NJ? Any special instructions for getting it back to his home? Can he have it in his checked baggage on the airplane?

Thanks.

L
 
If its a spent cartridge, there are no issues.. even though New Jersey is a very poor gun state, there are no laws against having brass. we have many members who live in New Jersey who come to our Gun club in Pa, to shoot. they transport their guns and ammo according to the strict gun laws of the state of New Jersey.
There are no specific laws or no fly clauses in the NTSB registry of items that include a piece of spent brass.
 
How bizarre. I thought the obvious answer to the op was to don't worry since it is just inert metal at this point. After reading the Washington post article above, now i am sick. What have we become?
 
Thanks for the info everyone!

Just to make sure all of my bases are covered is he still okay if he flies through new york?
 
Evil-Twin said:
If its a spent cartridge, there are no issues.. even though New Jersey is a very poor gun state, there are no laws against having brass....
Click to expand...
And how do you know this? Unless you've done the research, you can't legitimately make that statement. And if you've done the research, detail it for us.

Don't spout off on legal issues that could get someone into trouble unless you have a solid basis for your opinion and can support it with documentation.

Evil-Twin said:
...we have many members who live in New Jersey who come to our Gun club in Pa, to shoot. they transport their guns and ammo according to the strict gun laws of the state of New Jersey....
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And that's no answer.

If they are New Jersey residents who lawfully, under New Jersey law, possess guns and ammunition in New Jersey, they would of course have satisfied any formalities required under New Jersey law to do so. But someone who is not a resident of New Jersey and who has not jumped through the right hoops might well be a different matter entirely.
 
Can anyone answer the OP's question with solid, verifiable information regarding what New Jersey law actually is?

I don't know the answer, and I'm not going to do the research. So if someone has some solid information about New Jersey, please speak up.

But this is also not a place to post random rants about the state of the law. Some off topic posts have already been deleted.

Stay on track.
 
Frank Ettin said:
Can anyone answer the OP's question with solid, verifiable information regarding what New Jersey law actually is?



I don't know the answer, and I'm not going to do the research. So if someone has some solid information about New Jersey, please speak up.



But this is also not a place to post random rants about the state of the law. Some off topic posts have already been deleted.



Stay on track.
Click to expand...


NJ firearms legislation is under 2C:39 and 2C:58. While there are points where specific ammo types are discussed, a case is not included in any of it.

Not a bullet that is capable of defeating body armor or the other points in 2C:39-3f since there is no bullet. Even if you could say it was "handgun" ammo, 2C:58-3.3-1a states that "non-fixed ammunition" is not included in that section. Not incendiary or tracer ammo, so 2C:58-10 isn't making it illegal.

In short, giving him a fired case will not have any legal repercussions for either party. It would be similar to giving him an apple...
 
Screwball said:
...

In short, giving him a fired case will not have any legal repercussions for either party. It would be similar to giving him an apple...
Click to expand...

Screwball,
I can't agree that it's even similar to an apple. Despite your looking up NJ statutes, having even a single piece of rifle brass on the floor of your vehicle may not in itself be illegal. However, it may prompt a law enforcement officer to question and possibly detain an individual. An apple would excite only a customs official who is worried about certain pesticides and/or diseases.

Just like having a SINGLE carton of cigarettes for personal consumption while driving North of I95 may be “legal”, I would not put it in plain view from outside the vehicle. Likewise, I would not drive around town with my beer can collection on Saturday night. ... What I am saying is: Even if it's legal, be discrete.

Chuck
 
In NJ even if an empty case or a loose bullet is legal to possess - it will freak out most of the cops up there and very possibly get you rapidly introduced to Mr. Asphalt and Mr. Handcuffs while they try to figure out what to do with you.
 
Frank Ettin said:
And how do you know this? Unless you've done the research, you can't legitimately make that statement. And if you've done the research, detail it for us.

Don't spout off on legal issues that could get someone into trouble unless you have a solid basis for your opinion and can support it with documentation.

And that's no answer.

If they are New Jersey residents who lawfully, under New Jersey law, possess guns and ammunition in New Jersey, they would of course have satisfied any formalities required under New Jersey law to do so. But someone who is not a resident of New Jersey and who has not jumped through the right hoops might well be a different matter entirely.
Click to expand...
You are right... I commented from my heart and with limited knowledge, not from my head.... as ridiculous as it sounds to be concerned about a single piece of brass, Some of the State Gun laws are as ridiculous as this concern " should " be.,.. but unfortunately.. My heart was in the right place.. but my head was not....
Thanks for reeling me in....I am very passionate about my gun rights...and I spoke without authority. The good news is that IM in a gun forum, where the truth is a priority over the normal testosterone filled gun forums.
Bill aka ET
 
Don't spout off on legal issues that could get someone into trouble unless you have a solid basis for your opinion and can support it with documentation.
Click to expand...

Didn't get enough bran there Frank? As you have often stated, people who get their law advice from the internet deserve what they get.

If we're just turning this into a lawyer's forum, then we'll have even fewer posts than the five currently active ones.

Of course, that's just my personal opinion with no legal documentation to back it up.
 
...As you have often stated, people who get their law advice from the internet deserve what they get.

If we're just turning this into a lawyer's forum, then we'll have even fewer posts than the five currently active ones....
Click to expand...
While an Internet discussion forum is not the best place to get legal information, the reality is that people will sometimes [perhaps foolishly] rely on legal information they find on an Internet discussion forum. And bad legal information could get someone into a lot of trouble.

As far as I'm concerned, anyone who posts about what the law is, or whether or not someone may, or may not, lawfully do something, or how someone could do something lawfully has a responsibility to take steps to "get it right." Too much can be at stake.

And if that results in fewer posts with specious, useless, unsupported, or undocumented information, I consider that a good thing. Lousy information has no value to anyone, and keeping lousy information out of this Forum results in a more favorable signal to noise ratio. Quality is far preferable to quantity.

So if you're disinclined to bother being able to support your opinions on legal matters, feel free not to post them. There's already more than enough bad information floating around in cyberspace.
 
brass

Looking at the NJ laws that were cited, and checking through (for good measure) New York's draconian SAFE act....the references to and prohibitions of are to "ammunition" - in a very real sense a spent case is no longer "ammunition".
 
entropy said:
Any competent lawyer should be able to make short work of that trial.
Click to expand...

But when the whole court is ignorant as to "what ammo is" the verdict will surprise you. Guilty of ammo possession (or attempted ammo possession, whatever that is) for having muzzle loading bullets. These are just pieces of lead and copper and because of what they are used for are considered ammo in the nation's capitol.

Nevertheless Judge Morin said, “I’m persuaded these are bullets. They look like bullets. They are hollow point. They are not musket balls.” He then ruled that Mr. Witaschek had possessed “beyond a reasonable doubt” the metal pieces in D.C.​

See the article about the verdict in this case below:

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news...e-shock-verdict-mark-witaschek-guil/?page=all

In another part of the linked article, is the indented text below which has to do with the sentence. It does not seem to be a felony conviction, but it certainly is a "gun crime" that may come up when he attempts to purchase in his new home state of VA.

Judge Robert Morin sentenced Mr. Witaschek to time served, a $50 fine and required him to enroll with the Metropolitan Police Department’s firearm offenders’ registry within 48 hours.​

chuck

PS: The moral of the story: Don't expect the court to get it right when it comes to guns, ammo (or parts of ammo) in the "gun-hating" parts of this county.
 
Last edited:
Possession of brass in NJ is fine.

Flying with it is another matter. You mentioned that it will be in checked baggage. That should be fine. My stepson bought a hollow base 45-70 type projectile from an antique shop in New Mexico and tossed it in his carryon when we left without another thought. That was, without another thought UNTIL we got to the scanners at the gate. Oy. The pulled it out of his bag and 15 minutes of discussion later it was finally declared to be OK.

We weren't too sure how it was going to turn out with my wife having Salt Lick BBQ dry rub on the trip home from Texas just a month or so ago... But I digress.

Keep the brass in the checked baggage until he gets home and all should be fine. I don't remember the name of the act, but traveling through even NYC should cover him if he is transporting it from one legal place to another.

All the best.

C
 
A friend of mine from NJ visited me. When he was down here he bought some earrings that were made out of the head stamps of 9mm casings for his girlfriend. I jokingly asked if he needed a permit for those. Not quite knowing how bad NJ gun laws, just heard horror stories.

In any case I can't find anything that classifies brass as ammo in NJ state law. You cannot rely on the courts to get OUR terminology right. Case in point "assault rifle." I don't expect a court to know the difference between a scrap brass casing to a loaded round.

As far as flying goes, checked baggage is a safe bet. I have flown with ziploc bags full of range brass that clanked on the claim counter. No need to even tell the clerk it is there if just brass. Even if he flies through a NY airport there won't be any worries.
 
PS: The moral of the story: Don't expect the court to get it right when it comes to guns, ammo (or parts of ammo) in the "gun-hating" parts of this county.
Click to expand...

Has nothing to do with what he had, and whether it was legal. There are so many procedural violations that any competent laywer should be able to win the case.
 
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