Powder measuring volume vs weight

[JanZ]

After reading the paper cartridge thread (Outstanding info) I started rolling my own too. Papers are real easy to acquire here in Humboldt county btw.

After rolling up 25-30 little tubes some with bullets and some just powder I found I wanted to use my powder measure to toss the charges. I'm using a Lee measure, all plastic.

I am loading Hodgens 777 so I called Lee about using the measure they waffled around, craw fished and then said unofficially I probably could but the liability legal BS tells them to officially say no.

So then I called Hodgen and posed the same question to the makers of the powder they said they didn't see a problem with it and it should work fine.

So then I decided to see what my little brass measure was throwing by weight and here are the results.

Each charge was tapped once to settle and struck off even with the top of the measure.

Volume gn ------Weight gn

5---------------3
10--------------7.2
15--------------10.4
20--------------14.7
25--------------18.6
30--------------21.9
35------------- 27.1
40------------- 30
35------------- 34.3
50--------------36.7

I'd be interested to see what other peoples measures are throwing if some of you wouldn't mind testing a few charges and posting the results.

 

[BHP FAN]

I just use my brass measure anymore.I went at it about bass ackward and weighed some measured sixgun charges, and they were enough off [even from each other] that I gave the experiment up. I use two TOP papers to make my .54-70 paper cartridges for my Sharps, because of the durability, but I like the Zig Zags for pistol cartridges, because they combust more completely.

 

[Foto Joe]

Unfortunately, my results are a 1,000 miles away in my shop but from memory I can tell you that the volume measures generally won't match in weight.

I recently discovered that even real black varies between makers. Weights - Swiss vs. Goex

I will add a disclaimer that it is "My Understanding" the original charge weights for things like 45-70, 30-30, 44-40 etc. were arrived at using 2f powder and that today all weights are predicated upon the 2f weight. Which powder, heavy like Swiss or light like Goex is anybodies guess.

Also, since BP is hygroscopic, it can and will get heavier in high humidity, probably not much but for people like me who split hairs, it probably could be measured.

When you get into substitutes, it's a whole 'nother box of snakes. What ever you do Do not load Pyrodex by weight!! You probably couldn't stuff enough by weight into a revolver to do damage, but say 120gr Pyrodex by weight in a rifle might not go too well.

 

[JanZ]

My Ruger Old Army seems to like about a 20-25 grain (Volume) measure of 777 under a ball. So lets say I set my powder measure to toss a charge of 16 grains by weight remembering that 20gnV = 14.7gnW and 25gnV = 18.6gnW that puts me dead on the money and also gives me a consistent charge to shoot with.

The other great thing about pre loading the paper charges is since this is a "Short load" I can also put the two scoops of Cream of Wheat on top as the filler, I use a 32ACP case as a measure.


I should also add that I am currently experimenting with some of that white gift wrapping tissue as the wrap for the cartridge rather than cigarette papers, I think it will work OK but you need to use a glue stick on it, the good thing is you can roll the entire sheet onto a dowel, glue and then cut the tubes to length.

 

[Kruzr]

Papers are real easy to acquire here in Humboldt county btw.

Did they look at you funny and just nod their heads when you told them the papers were for ammunition?

 

[BHP FAN]

I like the cigarette paper because it's already nitrated, and combusts more or less completely. If you use other kinds of paper, you'll have to nitrate treat it yourself. I ran into this with my ''paper cutter'' Sharps, and went back to pre-nitrated paper.

 

[JanZ]

"Did they look at you funny and just nod their heads when you told them the papers were for ammunition?"

Yeah they did, especially when I told the kid behind the counter I was going to smoke them with black powder.

 

[Bluehawk]

My rolling papers come in the can of tobacco I purchase...no questions asked! Since I don't "roll" my cigarettes...I have a machine that uses a filtered tube, so for the longest time I would just throw the rolling papers in a box. Sadly, I threw away about 60 packs of good rolling papers! :banghead:

 

[Oyeboten]

Far as weight vs Volume...so far, in my Black Powder Loading of Metallic Cartridge, I just see what fits with that Bullet with good compresion, dig it back out of the Case...so it is loose again, weigh it...

Set my Powder Dispenser to throw 'that' Charge, weighing every now and then of those, to make sure nothing has drifted...

And, that's it.

 

[JanZ]

I was reading about developing loads using Trail Boss powder and that's very similar to what was being described.