"Pre-Ban" Russian AK-47 - Good deal or No?

[<*(((><]

I know enough about AK-47's to be dangerous.

I have a line on what has been called a "Pre-Ban" AK-47 for sale for $850

What I know about it from the pictures and text is:

1. Imported by CAA
2. It was FACTORY converted (his capital emphasis not mine)
3. Has an AR style adjustable stock and a quad rail
4. Say's it's hardly been shot, one can see the typical safety selector swipe but overall looks good.
5. Has "Made in Russia by Izhmash" on the side.

I'm guessing by pre-ban he means when Obama banned the importations from Russia?

How is this deal? I'm trying to move quick on this deal as these are starting to move fast and would like to get a genuine Russian sample from the Izhmash plant.

 

[shoobe01]

• CAA?
• Factory converted to what? From what?
• AR stock, rail, etc is the ghey to me, I would have to consider them negatives, but /probably/ not damaging to the gun, just buy new bits and replace, unless that's what you want.
• I'd want to know for sure the condition, and if it functions.
• Izhmash is, unless my memory is fading, solid stuff. The "converted" is the only bit that worries me if it was actually a parts kit or otherwise messed with at some point.

Pre-ban normally means the 94-04 ban on cosmetic features. That would mean it's a pre-94 gun that was not neutered in any permanent way (pinned flash hider...) to comply with the AWB. But I'd make sure again.

Otherwise, unless I am missing something, very good price. Almost suspiciously so I'd ask many more questions.

 

[Ignition Override]

Even the words "Pre-Ban AK-47" is stretching the meaning a good bit, even when manufactured in the Izhmash factory.

On second thought, it is probably a converted Saiga. I owned both a .223 and 7.62x39 which were stock original (almost all were imported with plastic furniture), with the manuals and yellowish plastic bags etc.

If it Is a converted Saiga, can you trust the internal work (moved trigger group) of a stranger?

 

[FL-NC]

To me, AK's of any origin will always be $300 rifles. Just not my cup of tea, esp. when a good AR can be had for $500 or even less. $850 could get one a decent AR AND optic.

 

[crestoncowboy]

The operation and function is perhaps the simplest of the battle rifles but the Ak rifles are very confusing as far as info and values, even origin. Some say izhmash, romarms, sar, wasr, etc. Every time i see one that looks like it was assembled in a hurry by children I'm told it is valuable, then I see one with more heft and nicer fit and finish and find out it's lower end. Idk.
Usually pre-ban means before the Clinton era ban, the ak pattern rifles lost their pistol grip( in favor of a one piece stock similar to a druganov) , muzzle brake, and came with small mags and I'm sure other things, parts counts etc. One mag can be worth 10 bucks and another very similar one up to hundreds, korea vs German vs Chinese. I own a few and still know very little about them. I have a couple in 5.45x 39 they perform well enough but for every answer I get about them I get three other conflicting ones. There are forums dedicated to them where you would get more focused readers but someone who knows more will come along on here too. The highest I've paid for any of mine is 400 dollars so I think I'm in the clear, but I know enough about them to know that I don't know enough about them.

 

[cheygriz]

One reason I stick to factory Norincos.

 

[rbernie]

Sounds like a converted Saiga, imported before the Russians were cut off. That’s a decent price, for my neck of the woods.

 

[Sovblocgunfan]

Converted in US. NOT factory-converted. The importer did it. Also the maker Izhmash is a well-known Russian manufacturer with more than 100 years of history. Of course, they do also make military AKs and pistols etc.

Russia has strict rules, and USA has strict rules, about what can be exported and imported for commercial sale to the public. In this case, the rules require izhmash (Izhevsk Mashin) to build these rifles with certain combination of features that allow them to be exported as sporting rifles according to russian law.

The importer, likely Century Arms International (CAI not CAA) added the butt and changed the forearm furniture. You may also note lack of third hole, lack of bayonet lug, lack of compensator, etc. the rifle would have been built with some combination of those omissions.

It’s been awhile, but a couple-3 years ago these were fetching $750 due to ban. $850 seems a bit high to me. Try to bargain a bit.

But otherwise, it’s an AK as close to Russian as you can get.

 

[js8588]

799 & I'd buy it.

 

[<*(((><]

Well I picked it up today, stripped all the cheap furniture off of it (AR adjustable type stock, quad rail and pistol grip). Going to buy some nice Russian red wood when I find some. Detail stripped it and everything looks great, doesn’t appear to have been shot much. The rivets are all tight, the trunnions show very little wear and the tail of the bolt is shined but now deformation.

It didn’t come with the forearm wood metal end plates as it had a quad rail on it and it seems all the furniture kits do not come with them. Where does one find the end plates that attach to the gas tube for the top forearm and the end plates for the bottom forearm?

Has anyone removed a pinned muzzle treatment before. Would like to get it back to having a compensator on it as well. It’ll be a project of aesthetics and some function. Want to find some deep Combloc red laminate furniture for it, I’m sure I’ll pay a pretty penny but it’ll be my one AK so might as well do it right.

 

[kozak6]

Pre-ban usually means pre-1994.

$850 is a fair to great price.

There used to be bolt-on handguard adapters, or it's possible to have a gunsmith install the real deal. Or, there's a suitable Zhukov forend in the meantime.

You might get more help over at akfiles.

 

[Sovblocgunfan]

Agreed, “pre-ban” is likely a misapplied buzzword in this context.

OP, You can find standard AKM wood sets anywhere. As far as I know they all come with the necessary metal already on them.

Ironwood designs makes some really nice wood that I would definitely put on an $800 AK.

If you want to add the compensator you need to ensure the muzzle is threaded for one. Those threads are reverse-threaded, BTW. Tapco used to offer an angled one, as I recall.

Not sure how your muzzle is configured-is it just a nut with a pin to secure it? If so, there’s no magic there. The pins are tapered. I believe they are removed from the right side of the rifle to the left. You’ll want to double check that.

Otherwise, the front sight block has a spring-loaded pin that you push back into the FSB so that you can unscrew the muzzle nut.

 

[fpgt72]

I agree with a lot of what is said here.....now if it is something you can't get anymore, that is always going to be worth more....chinese for example.

Some things are always only going to be worth X to some people.....so what.

We all like different things, IMHO what grands go for is flat stupid, and I will not, never, ever pay the current going price for them no matter how badly I want that IH. To others it might be worth it.

Collecting is very different from just buying stuff, and many people think they are collectors when they really have collections, there is a very big difference. I think I am on the cusp between the two.

I had a lawyer friend that was a lever gun collector.....and I do mean collector, Several rim fire henry rifles, volcanic, all the way up to XTR. And at least one of everything....after that was finished he went to other levers, Savage 99 and all its different flavors....he had a room....and I do mean room, like glass, humidity, all that jazz....he shot some, but others are just investments. And he called them that investments, he did not do the stock market he did this, and he knew what was what, friends with people that wright these model specific books....very cool.

But really it is our interests that do that. I stop and think you know I could do that and then I would really have something....but that is not just me.....I am just too....squirrel....and off I go in another direction. There are a few things I am very specific on, I love the Remington 8-81 and have several of those and usually grab something that I see that I don't have....I just find the mechanics of them interesting....others would say that gun is nothing but a huge pain in the butt to take apart all those little levers and such.....I just find it cool how that machine works. On the other hand the winchesters do nothing for me, 351 and 401 just leave me flat, just a big blow back...big woop, they are sleek and have nice lines....much more attractive over the remington, but there is no mechanics there for me.

We all like what we like, just because an SKS for example will always be worth $89 and to make a statement like that is a bit of a talking down......and yea this coming from me...and you all know how I feel about a specific little very popular rimfire rifle....But this statement it will never be worth is so much cork sniffing it just ticks me off.....one of many things that tick me off.

 

[rbernie]

I seem to recall that the Saiga barrels did not come with all of the relevant notches and cuts for standard AK end caps – which is why many conversions used rails that didn’t require end caps. I hope that that’s not the case here.

 

[illinoisburt]

..... nice Russian red wood ..... end plates that attach to the gas tube for the top forearm and the end plates for the bottom forearm ..... compensator on it as well ..... Some deep Combloc red laminate furniture....

All well and good items to return said rifle to its original design specs. However you will need to carefully go over what is on the gun in the way of American parts to stay in 922R compliance. No there aren't people out checking everyone's rebuilds, but we all want to be responsible legal gun owners.

http://www.tapco.com/section922r/

 

[<*(((><]

Thanks for the reminder @illinoisburt.

It looks like to me anyways the imported items on this rifle are:
1. Receiver
2. Barrel
3. Barrel Extension
4. Trunions
5. Bolt
6. Carrier
7. Operating Rod
8. Gas Piston
9. Muzzle device

Questions I have are:

Technically an AK does not have an operating rod correct as it is one piece with the gas piston?

 

[Ignition Override]

<*(((><

Yes, the op rod is connected to the bolt carrier, but the section called the 'piston' or 'op rod' should be able to flex a little.

 

[<*(((><]

<*(((><

Yes, the op rod is connected to the bolt carrier, but the section called the 'piston' or 'op rod' should be able to flex a little.

For 922r purposes do those count as just one piece? That was my concern.

 

[Ignition Override]

I don't know about the parts count. What I'm about to say will create quite a skeptical or scornful reaction among some people. I've literally cheated death (myocardial infarction, head on driver on highway at night, huge tree falling in front of my moving car) three times in the last 14 months and therefore.. 922r would Never concern me....and it never did Before those events.

If you have ever read comments by an astute Moderator ("nalioth") on the AK 47 Forum at AKfiles, he can demonstrate quite well that 922r was created for people/companies who "assemble" imported AK components--the actual "importers"--not the end users who swap a magazine or butt stock etc., which is an extremely common practice.
The ATF has never prosecuted a private user solely for swapping parts. They have attached such an extra charge to an Actual felony charge: drug dealing, criminal conspiracy etc.

 

[<*(((><]

I don't know about the parts count. What I'm about to say will create quite a skeptical or scornful reaction among some people. I've literally cheated death (myocardial infarction, head on driver on highway at night, huge tree falling in front of my moving car) three times in the last 14 months and so 922r would Never concern me....

If you have ever read comments by an astute Moderator ("nalioth") on the AK 47 Forum at AKfiles, he can demonstrate quite well that 922r was created for people/companies who "assemble" imported AK components--the actual "importers"--not the end users who swap a magazine or butt stock etc., which is an extremely common practice.
The ATF has never prosecuted a private user solely for swapping parts. They have attached such an extra charge to an Actual felony charge: drug dealing, criminal conspiracy etc.

I get the likelihood is small, however our government is changing fast in their view of the latitude they have in creating, enforcing and judication of laws on the books. I'm increasing astounded every day it seems with the outright abuse of power at our government level. So although it is trivial and likely never to happen to me, I want to make sure my firearms follow the law as it is written on the books, even though many actions of current politicians ignore said laws when performing their "civic duties."

I don't agree and have argued in the past vehemently against gun laws, however there is a means of changing the laws that has been established by our founding fathers. It's just a shame that the rules don't apply this day and age; as well as gun owners not standing up to this abuse. So as a person of integrity that believes in our constitution and bill of rights I will try and act within the law even if those that have been elected don't.

 

[Walkalong]

Threaded and pinned, but with a little wobble.

 

[<*(((><]

@Walkalong do you know if that is 2 parts towards the limit of 10? That is my question. I know what it looks like and how it functions, but cannot get a clear answer towards 922r compliance.

 

[Walkalong]

No AK is worth $800 to me. For whatever reason after the craziness ARs came down but AKs have not. They are still cheap to make.

 

[Walkalong]

@Walkalong do you know if that is 2 parts towards the limit of 10?

One part. I changed mine to a USA made rod.

 

[<*(((><]

One Russian made AK will be worth paying more to me. Not for the value that is there but for the history, it won't be a safe queen but I would like to have one that was manufactured at Izhmash factory even if it has had to be converted with some American made parts. They aren't getting any cheaper that's for sure for an Izhmash built one. I know it probably won't make sense to a lot of people.