Proper manual of arms for lever action (is manual safety necessary?)

[MatthewVanitas]

Greetings all. I have limited experience with Winchester-style lever action rifles, just shot a buddy's 30-30 at the range.

Then read the recent review of Winchester's reintroduced .25-35 lever rifles http://www.gunblast.com/Winchester_25-35.htm and found myself rather curious.

I'm under the impression that lever's didn't have safeties in the old days, then got the crossbolt, now have the tang safety. Is that the case? When it has a safety, do you carry it cocked-and-locked? Can you decock it on a live round and carry it hammer-down/off-safe safely?

Is a manual safety on a lever-gun just lawyerproofing? Ordinarily, I think tang safeties are very convenient on a conventionally-stocked rifle, but it does screw up the very spot you need to mount a tang sight on a lever.

It's mainly an academic question for me, since I have a T/C carbine w/ 45-70 and .223 barrels to take hunting, or an M1 Garand if there's not too much hiking involved. Moving to Austin this fall, and really hoping to get a chance to take a shot at the feral pig population. I figure either of my big rifles should suffice for that. Just hope there's some sort of THR anti-pig event I can attend.

Thanks for any info to enlighten a young whelp as to the proper handling of a levergun. -MV

 

[Father Knows Best]

That depends on the rifle. Rifles without manual safeties or rebounding hammers, like my Uberti model 1866 Yellowboy, can only be safely carried with the hammer down on an empty chamber. They're no different than the old single action revolvers, which were always carried "5 beans in the wheel" and the hammer down on the empty (6th) chamber. There is no way to safely lower the hammer on a live round, and doing so would still leave you with an unsafe condition because a sharp rap to the hammer (just as by dropping it) could cause an AD.

Newer designs have rebounding hammers and/or external manual safeties. Those with external safeties (like the crossbolt) are safe to carry with a round in the chamber.

 

[30Cal]

I have several lever-actions and the only thing they have is the half-cock position (and that doesn't constitute a safety IMHO). When hunting, I leave the chamber empty unless I'm going to be sitting in one spot for a while, in which case I'll chamber a round and leave the hammer on the half-cock. Half-cock is only slightly better than lowering the hammer completely on a chambered round--you drop the rifle, you still run the risk of disaster.

Ty

 

[Bix]

For whatever it's worth - in volume 12 of his Commentaries, Cooper suggests that the proper method of carry for the lever gun is condition 3 (loaded magazine, empty chamber, safety off). The action is cycled, according to Cooper, as the gun mounts.

 

[Father Knows Best]

I agree with Ty and Bix (and of course, with Cooper). It is generally not safe to use half cock as a safety, because: (1) half cock notches on sears are notoriously prone to failure; and (2) there is no reliably safe way to get the hammer from full cock to half cock with a live round in the chamber (a slip of the thumb results in an AD). If you are sitting in a tree stand, it might be o.k., but you still have problem 2, and you'd better be sure to remove that round from the chamber before you try to climb down. I wouldn't risk it. Frankly, if I feel the need to keep a round in the chamber, then I'm leaving the hammer back and remembering using the safety between my ears. That means strict adherence to Gunsite safety rule #2: keep your booger hook off the bang switch until your sights are on the target! If you know that the gun is cocked and ready to fire, you're more apt to be very careful with your trigger finger. Putting it on half cock can be dangerous, and cause you to get careless.

Of course, the presence of a manual safety (tang or crossbolt push button) changes all that. With a manual safety you can leave it cocked and locked with the safety on, and just release the safety when you're ready to fire.

 

[Ash]

With the Mossberg 472, which had a safety ten years before Winchester or Marlin, there is no half-cock notch. The only way to carry it would be empty chamber or chambered with the safety on.

Ash

 

[JNewell]

Interestingly, the owner's manual/instructions for my Browning 92 (from the late 1970s) explicitly says that the half-cock notch can be used "during hunting." It also goes on with several cautions about how the rifle may discharge anyway, but apparently 25 years ago they thought that people might do this. For the record, especially with rifles with full-length firing pins like the 92, I agree with Cooper's dictum. It is interesting to see how manufacturers have changed in response to the changes in our culture, though.

 

[MechAg94]

I tend to agree with Cooper (and Bix). It is always healthy to assume that mechanical devices can fail.

 

[Otherguy Overby]

Way back in the olden tymes

Before the current "gun" era, long guns with exposed hammers were regularly left loaded with one in the chamber at half cock. They were often carried around and hunted with in the same condition.

Wasn't it somewhere in the 1970s that safeties came into use after about 100 years of these kind of guns? It kinda follows, in my logic, at least, that there couldn't have been many problems with NDs or they would have put safeties on them much sooner.

I also seem to recall that the great majority of NDs (ADs in the old days) were with bolt guns?

BTW, I have an old rifle like this, close to 100 years old, and it's spent most of those years fully loaded at half cock. Weren't they kinda designed that way?

 

[db_tanker]

MatthewV,

When you get to Texas, you will have a hard time trying to put a dent in the piggy population.

But you might want to check this place here out.....

www.tcbunch.com

we are all confessed TC-Aholics and we have an annual get together on a hunting lease in Normangee (not too far from Austin). Get in over there on the list. We have a wayward individual in Riverside that does a bunch of work on contenders and AR's and such...

And to stay on topic, I always leave the chamber empty when hunting....

Darrell

 

[Dr.Rob]

Hunted with a Marlin 336 .30-30 on 'half-cock' for years. But yes, the 4 rules still apply, as does regular old muzzle disciplne in the field.

The "New and Improved" cross bolt lets you drop the hammer from half cock... which imho isn't an improvement.

 

[Father Knows Best]

Before the current "gun" era, long guns with exposed hammers were regularly left loaded with one in the chamber at half cock. They were often carried around and hunted with in the same condition.

Wasn't it somewhere in the 1970s that safeties came into use after about 100 years of these kind of guns? It kinda follows, in my logic, at least, that there couldn't have been many problems with NDs or they would have put safeties on them much sooner.

I also seem to recall that the great majority of NDs (ADs in the old days) were with bolt guns?

BTW, I have an old rifle like this, close to 100 years old, and it's spent most of those years fully loaded at half cock. Weren't they kinda designed that way?

The fact that something was done a particular way in the past doesn't mean that it was safe. More importantly, folks learned long ago not to rely on half cock notches. Metallic cartridge revolvers did not come into being until the 1870s. They were, of course, generally "six shooters" in the sense that they had six chambers. Within a few years of their introduction, however, it was common knowledge that they were only safely carried "5 beans in the wheel", i.e., with the hammer down on an empty chamber. If you had it on half cock, and dropped the gun in such a way that it landed on the hammer, the half cock notch could and would break and the gun would fire. In the movie The Shootist, for example, He-Who-Does-No-Wrong (The Duke, of course) explains to his young protege that you generally only carry 5 rounds in a revolver (but can load 6 if you think you'll really need it). That was standard practice 100 years ago.

 

[115grfmj]

Half cock is.....

the traditional safety for a lever gun, but the only time I would consider
using it with a round in the chamber, would be while tree stand hunting.
If your going to store it, I second the condition three opinion.
As much as the traditionalist hate it, the crossbolt does have some merits.
For instance if I stalk hunting with my Marlin 1894c I'd use it. When
hunting movement counts, and racking the lever will get your game
running before you can get a shot off. Much better to align your sites
and then click off the saftey, and FAR safer to carry. Also much safer
unloading with the safty on, rather than cycling the action with the hammer
back for every cycle.

just my .02cents

 

[cracked butt]

I won't own a winchester with a crossbolt safety.

Carry it with an empty chamber is hte safest way, but for stalking and still hunting I had no qualms whatsoever carrying a winchester 94 at 1/2 cock. If you hunt from a stand, chamber a round, and lower the hammer to 1/2 cock, and slip another round into the magazine to replace it.

Yes it is ok to lower a hammer to 1/2 cock from full cock, if you do it right. If you have your thumb inline with the hammer spur it can slip off, if you lay your thumb across the spur, you are much less likely to lose control of the hammer. Practice this with an unloaded rifle to get comfortable with it before trying it with a loaded chamber. Watch where your muzzle is pointing while doing this as you would with any other rifle.

Older lever guns don't have any lawyers or other gremlins built in, so they require you to use your head when handling, which really isn't any different than any other gun with the modern built in illusion that they are safer.