Psudo-Newbie Question (Suppressor, thermal management R&D)

[nobilitygroup]

Gentlemen,

I'm newer to the ULR precision and suppressor market and have been doing about a years' worth of research trying to develop (and mostly afford) a platform with the intent to push my skills past the 1k yd and closer to the 1800-2000 yd mark.

Due to other hobbies and interests, I have an amateur background in thermal management and some mechanical R&D.

One of the things I've been trying to figure out is how to efficiently manage heat during followup shots (reducing mirage on suppressor). This will also allow me to use better thermal imaging when this can is being used on other platforms at night. I'm fully aware of the silicone covers, but would like to try a few other ideas before I go there. One of my ideas was to use a triple layer, gold foil and foamed ceramic insulating tubes (outside will be covered in an aluminum or stainless steel alloy). According to my significantly amateur research, this has the potential to severely reduce the thermal "pollution" and also allow for a prolonged cool-down period (this should be fine since I'm not planning on firing more than a few shots at a time).

My concern is that this might be considered "modifying the suppressor." I'm not planning on cutting, welding, or otherwise manipulating the suppressor, but I could see how this might be perceived if the insulation were to be semi-permanently attached to the outside of the tube.

Any input would be greatly appreciated.

 

[Telekinesis]

I'm admittedly not a thermodynamics engineer, but I would think that trapping heat in the suppressor is the last thing you'd want to do. While you would help with issues like mirage and any thermal imaging problems associated with the can, you would likely be increasing wear on your tube and core if you do a really good job of insulating it. I would make sure that the suppressor you start with is capable of dealing with trapping all of the heat without loosing structural integrity of either the core/baffles or the tube itself.

What caliber are you planning on doing this with? A 1800-2000 yard cartridge probably means something in the .338 to .50 BMG class? I'd personally recommend prototyping something like this on a .30 cal can rated for use on magnums or FA, and shooting standard .308. That way you are investing less into the can (in case it gets screwed up) and have a greater margin of safety in regard to pressures and heat. It would suck to have a failure on a .50 cal can.

Also, have you looked into Titanium tubed suppressors? I don't know if that would help or hurt for mirage, but I know my Ti cans are usually cooler to the touch than my Aluminum tubes cans after shooting.

Also, just to throw this out there... if you're already banking on an increased cool down time, why not just let the can cool down to ambient temperature between shots? Granted this does mean you would need to recalculate for wind and such, but it may be a good low/no tech solution (but I know, what's the fun in that?)

On the legalities, I don't know what to tell you. I would probably err on the side of caution when it comes to modifying anything, even if you're not messing with internals. Definitely make sure things like SN and manufacturer engraving remain visible.

I'd also recommend talking to a suppressor manufacturer that does custom work and let them know what you're thinking about. I hear Liberty is taking custom orders again and they have a habit of seriously overbuilding their cans (their full sized 9mm suppressor can take just about anything you can stuff down the bore, including some supersonic rifle) and have taken on some interesting projects before, so they might be a good place to look. It would be a lot easier to have them make the prototypes from scratch using the right materials than for you to pay a bunch of money for a can, wait a year to get it transferred, and then start trying to figure out how to put everything together to accomplish your goal without stepping over legal lines or potentially hurting your can.

 

[SC45-70]

Gentlemen,

I'm newer to the ULR precision and suppressor market and have been doing about a years' worth of research trying to develop (and mostly afford) a platform with the intent to push my skills past the 1k yd and closer to the 1800-2000 yd mark.

Due to other hobbies and interests, I have an amateur background in thermal management and some mechanical R&D.

One of the things I've been trying to figure out is how to efficiently manage heat during followup shots (reducing mirage on suppressor). This will also allow me to use better thermal imaging when this can is being used on other platforms at night. I'm fully aware of the silicone covers, but would like to try a few other ideas before I go there. One of my ideas was to use a triple layer, gold foil and foamed ceramic insulating tubes (outside will be covered in an aluminum or stainless steel alloy). According to my significantly amateur research, this has the potential to severely reduce the thermal "pollution" and also allow for a prolonged cool-down period (this should be fine since I'm not planning on firing more than a few shots at a time).

My concern is that this might be considered "modifying the suppressor." I'm not planning on cutting, welding, or otherwise manipulating the suppressor, but I could see how this might be perceived if the insulation were to be semi-permanently attached to the outside of the tube.

Any input would be greatly appreciated.

Why not carry a jug of water and pour it over the suppressor when it gets hot?

SC45-70

 

[nobilitygroup]

I'm admittedly not a thermodynamics engineer, but I would think that trapping heat in the suppressor is the last thing you'd want to do. While you would help with issues like mirage and any thermal imaging problems associated with the can, you would likely be increasing wear on your tube and core if you do a really good job of insulating it. I would make sure that the suppressor you start with is capable of dealing with trapping all of the heat without loosing structural integrity of either the core/baffles or the tube itself.

What caliber are you planning on doing this with? A 1800-2000 yard cartridge probably means something in the .338 to .50 BMG class? I'd personally recommend prototyping something like this on a .30 cal can rated for use on magnums or FA, and shooting standard .308. That way you are investing less into the can (in case it gets screwed up) and have a greater margin of safety in regard to pressures and heat. It would suck to have a failure on a .50 cal can.

Also, have you looked into Titanium tubed suppressors? I don't know if that would help or hurt for mirage, but I know my Ti cans are usually cooler to the touch than my Aluminum tubes cans after shooting.

Also, just to throw this out there... if you're already banking on an increased cool down time, why not just let the can cool down to ambient temperature between shots? Granted this does mean you would need to recalculate for wind and such, but it may be a good low/no tech solution (but I know, what's the fun in that?)

On the legalities, I don't know what to tell you. I would probably err on the side of caution when it comes to modifying anything, even if you're not messing with internals. Definitely make sure things like SN and manufacturer engraving remain visible.

I'd also recommend talking to a suppressor manufacturer that does custom work and let them know what you're thinking about. I hear Liberty is taking custom orders again and they have a habit of seriously overbuilding their cans (their full sized 9mm suppressor can take just about anything you can stuff down the bore, including some supersonic rifle) and have taken on some interesting projects before, so they might be a good place to look. It would be a lot easier to have them make the prototypes from scratch using the right materials than for you to pay a bunch of money for a can, wait a year to get it transferred, and then start trying to figure out how to put everything together to accomplish your goal without stepping over legal lines or potentially hurting your can.

Thanks, Telekinesis.

To answer your questions (you'll have to pardon the stream of thought):

1. I agree, normally trapping heat like this is ill-advised. Originally, I thought about using various thermally conductive material which have differing conductivity ratings (typically I found lower rated paste or "rubberized" pad to work better [Paste can be found here: http://www.bergquistcompany.com/thermal_materials/liqui_form/liqui-form-2000.htm . Pad can be found here: https://www.digikey.com/product-det...ogy/H48-6-150-150-5.0-1A/1168-1238-ND/3042067 ]). However, even at the lower conductivity rating, when I tested using a heat lamp, I discovered a very identifiable heat wave across the top of the cylinder. This focused a large amount of the thermal energy towards the highest point on the "heatsink" thus distorting the image directly in front of the vertical crosshair.

2. Correct. I'm building a platform with 338LM in mind. I also agree on testing this on a smaller can. I initially thought about trying to scale everything down to 17HMR, 22WMR, or the like. Once I find something that seems to work, I'll probably and an "07" to help simulate the proof of concept using a heat lamp and a mock up shell, then progress

3. Titanium has always been intriguing. Due to it's thermal efficiency, even a titanium shield may help dissipate and channel the heat away from the top portion of the can. I may have to revisit that. Potentially, if it's built of titanium entirely, it may shed the energy in such a way that a raised shield would be enough to eliminate that mirage and allow the can to cool as intended.

4. The layered design, potentially, would allow me to remove the shielding if needed. So, if I needed to let it cool down, I could remove the sleeve. The trick would be to design it in such a way as to not allow the sleeve to slip under recoil and thus potentially impact muzzle or external ballistics while retaining the ability to remove it when needed. However, ideally, it would rarely exceed more than a few (3-4) shots at a time.

5. Thank you, I'll have to reach out to Liberty and see if they have any ideas.