PTR-91 jammed, bolt is stuck

[sernv99]

I got a serious problem with my PTR-91. After shooting 100 rounds of Magtech ammo, I let the rifle cool off for about an hour and resumed shooting the magtech ammo again. After I shot a magazine of ammo, I reloaded with another magazine and started shooting again. After the second to last round, I shot and the round wouldn't eject. So I took out the magazine and saw that the case was still inside the chamber. I pulled the charging handle back a few times and the bolt is now stuck closed about 3/4 of the way. This thing is tight and it won't budge. I took the stock butt off and trigger assembly and put a long screwdriver inside the buffer tube to try to wiggle the bolt loose. Still won't go.

any suggestions? I'm at a relative's farm so there isn't any gunsmith around for miles. I travel back home Monday so earliest I could take it to a gunsmith would be Tues afternoon.

I did noticed when looking at the bolt carrier assembly inside the rifle, there is no gap or space between the sidewall of the rifle and the bolt on one side but there is space on the other side, know what I mean? it seems like the tolarances are pretty loose, no tight fit.

 

[rbernie]

DON'T pry on anything. Did the spent brass eject fully, or is it/some part of it still stuck in the chamber? If so, you'll need a broken shell extractor to pull it out.

In general, stuck brass happens sometimes with the fluted HK-style chamber. I usually bang the buttstock against the ground HARD, and that usually pulls the stuck brass free.

 

[rcmodel]

If the bolt is unlocked, and the extractor still has a hold of the case, knock it out with a cleaning rod.

rcmodel

 

[ceetee]

Sounds like in your wiggling, you got the bolt to try to lock up out of battery. The rollers will try to extend out into the trunnion, but since it's out of battery, there's no room for them.

If you can see where the bolt meets the bolt carrier (where you put the feeler gauge to check bolt gap), see if you can stick your screwdriver in there, and pop the bolt back out. That should make the rollers withdraw back into the bolt, and free it up.

 

[sernv99]

the case is still stuck inside, and the bolt is 3/4 closed. Well let me put it back together and bang on the butt stock really hard and see if that unsticks the bolt

 

[W.E.G.]

Reassemble the rifle to the correct configuration.

Hold the rifle in a vertical position with the muzzle facing skyward.

Hold the rifle approximately 20" over a firm surface.
The floor of the garage usually works well.

Extend the charging handle.

Place the "chopping" edge of your hand firmly on the charging handle.

With moderate force, slam the butt of the rifle on the firm surface.

You must also apply force on the charging handle as the butt strikes the firm surface.

If you are really worried about marring your buttstock, put several layers of duct tape on the buttplate before commencing this action.

If the spent case does not eject, repeat the process until the case is ejected or the rim is ripped off the case.

If you rip the rim off the case, report back here.

This maneuvre is know as the "WECSOG pogo," or just simply "the pogo."

Master it.

 

[sernv99]

got it loose, banged the butt stock on the ground, with a cushion on the floor to protect the rifle....

dang I thought this was a bad omen...

 

[rbernie]

Glad it's back in service.

You'll find that certain loads work better in the fluted chamber than others. In general, milsurp ammo works better than commercial, and light/plinking commercial ammo works better than hot commercial ammo.

You'll also likely find that the action works best when the bolt is greased rather than oiled. That's been my experience, anyway.

 

[W.E.G.]

PTR has put out a lot of good product.

Problem with any gun that uses a fluted chamber is you are going to run into extraction problems as the gun gets dirty.

As the gun is "broken-in," it may loosen up, and this may become less of a problem.

You still gotta really keep an eye on the chambers of the G3/CETME/PTR types.

These guns are some of the most "ammo-sensitive" battle rifles you will ever encounter.

There is good reason no newly-manufactured weapons utilize this design.
Well... except HK --- which we know is "better and smarter" than everybody else.
So long as you use "proper" ammunition.

IIRC, the Pakistani ammo that circulated recently has a slight "dry waxy coating" on it to assist in extraction. Pakistan still uses the G3 for military issue. Kinda sucks to have to lubricate your ammo, but it does seem to be the case.

 

[rbernie]

Interestingly enough, I have had EXCELLENT luck using Wolf polymer in my CETMEs.

Go figure.

 

[sernv99]

yeah I fired off the remaing 100 rounds that I had left, fed without a hitch.

now I am having a hell of a time putting the bolt head back onto the bolt carrier. I cleaned her up really good and putting it back together now. The problem I'm having is when you have the bolt carrier, with the long tube piece end facing away from you, on the left side of the carrier is a small skinny piece of metal slanted down with a spring underneath one end. Ok, so when i slide the bolt head back onto the locking piece, this skinny slanted metal piece blocks the bolt head from sliding all the way in. The bas eof the bolt doesnt touch the bolt carrier.

Dang, I'm trying for the life of me to remember how it was before I took it off. Why is that little piece giving me problems?:banghead: i'll look around some more online, guess I'm overlooking something simple:banghead:

 

[stubbicatt]

That skinny piece of spring loaded metal is the lock.

Here's how I do it. With the bolt and carrier disassembled, I insert the firing pin and firing pin spring into the bolt carrier. They sort of flop about until the locking piece is installed. Then goes the locking piece. When viewed from the muzzle end, I start to rotate the locking piece clockwise, while looking into the little windows in the two lengthwise grooves under the bolt carrier. When the lug of the locking piece lines up with the first window, this is the proper position to begin to install the bolt on the locking piece. There is a ramp of sorts machined into the bolt which levers under the spring loaded lock when the lug of the locking piece is properly aligned in that little window. A modest pressure on the bolt presses the bolt all the way onto the locking piece and under the lock, extending the rollers.

With the bolt installed on the locking piece and the rollers extended, I press inwards on the rollers very carefully and gently to slowly retract the bolt away from the bolt carrier using the camming force of the rollers, and commence to rotating the bolt the rest of the way clockwise until everything locks into place with the rollers retracted. Now I simply install the bolt/carrier assembly into the receiver.

Voila.

Hope this helps.

 

[sernv99]

got it....I had the locking piece lined up on the second window rather than the first window like you said and I used my palm of my hand rather than gripping it with one hand and holding the carrier in the other and trying to do it that way....snapped in easily when pressed with the palm of my hand

thanks...it was fun shooting this rifle. Definetly a mule kicker!!

 

[LeibstandarteAdH]

DONT pry anything or use any screwdriver. put all the furnature back on, or buy a 9$ stock set from cheaperthandirt and wack the butt on the ground tall ways real hard. then try standing it up and putting your foot on the open cocking handle and stomping it open it should then be able to be locked back then the case knocked out with a cleaning rod OR broken shell extractor look in your guts for pices of brass or primers and **** clean oil and put back togather and it will be good its a tough action if you break the cocking handle its like a dollar and easy to replace so dont worry about it

 

[Slamfire]

You still gotta really keep an eye on the chambers of the G3/CETME/PTR types.

Totally agree. After shooting all my 308 rifles, bolt or gas gun, I use a chamber brush and clean out the chamber. All gas guns will foul to the point that they eventually have cartridge/chamber breech friction problems. When the breech friction is too high, the cartridge does not extract.

With a HK91 design, clean and unobstructed chamber gas flutes are critical to proper function. Those gas flutes float the front 2/3 rds of the case off the chamber walls. If they are clogged up, the case is sticking to the chamber.

When I talked to PTR, they mentioned that this rifle design will have function issues if used with ammo with tar sealant, or "dirty ammo". Tar sealant will vaporize, and then condense inside the chamber. If your surplus ammo leaves a lot of powder residue, residue will clog the flutes.

There is good reason no newly-manufactured weapons utilize this design.
Well... except HK --- which we know is "better and smarter" than everybody else

.

I don't know if the fluted approach has been totally abandoned. Possibly, most of the new bull pup designs use a rotating bolt and some sort of an operating rod.

I think this statement is a bit unfair. HK was making a rifle for the German military. The Germans issued ammunition to their troops that were appropriate for the action. The Germans fully expected to keep their guys fully equipped with German ammo. German troops were not expected to be issued Indian, Pakistani, Chinese service ammo.

So we civilians get this service rifle and complain about deep flutes. So PTR reduces flute depth, and then we shoot all sorts of weird ammunition combinations through the action. Ok, maybe the action is more ammunition sensitive than the good old M14, FN/FAL actions in this regard.

Just pay attention to keeping the chamber clean, use clean ammo, and you will reduce the number of problems you will have.

 

[Funderb]

just proves that a good whack is better than tools most of the time for firearms! Russian ideals...