Purchasing Firearms in the USA

[Blakenzy]

Ok, here's my dilemma: I am an American living overseas. I have only recently taken an interest in firearms, just when I happen to be living in a foreign third world country that has a very limited (legally speaking) selection of firearms to choose from. Just my luck, huh? Of what few firearms that are available, most are used and carry ridiculous price tags and are just not worth my trouble. Try buying a used Glock 19 for $900 What I would like to know is if I, as a US citizen, can purchase firearms, or major firearm components (slide, frame, receiver, barrel) in the United States when I visit home next time, and take them out of the country for my personal use and amusement. Importation of personal firearms into the foreign country is not a big issue with the local Customs Service. I checked and I just have to pay a small duty fee and later register the gun. That's it. The problem, if there even is one, lays on the US side I guess.

I do not hold a current living address in the US, nor do I have a valid driver's liscence from any state. All I have is my passport, birth certificate and a PO box address that forwards my mail. Apart from that, I do have relatives living in Washington, D.C., not too helpfull because of their location I assume, and a few friends in the greater Detroit area. However, they are mostly indiferent towards firearms or blatantly antigun so I really won't get much help from them either on this subject.

Is it at all possible for me to buy a nice pistol or two I like next time I visit (which will probably last 15 days to a month) and bring them back with me even though I am not currently residing in the US at this time? If posible what states do you beleive would be more friendly in this aspect?

Kind of an odd question, I know, but I would really appreciate any help or advice.

 

[Outlaws]

People take firearms on cruises. The issue is when docking and what the other countries policy is. So if you come back, you can buy one and take it so long as they let you in with it...which it sounds like you say they will.

There might be an issue buying a new one though since you are not living here, but I am not familiar with how that will work. But face to face always works...and is cheaper.

 

[geekWithA.45]

Actually, guys in your position are the subject of a new lawsuit, info posted verbatim:

------------------------

NEWS RELEASE
SAF LAWSUIT DEFENDS RIGHTS OF CITIZENS LIVING ABROAD, CHALLENGES ‘SPORTING PURPOSE’ RESTRICTION
Plaintiffs in Dallas Federal Lawsuit say U.S. Gun Control Laws Unconstitutional
U.S. citizens overseas unfairly restricted from gun ownership, suit says
DALLAS – A United States citizen who now lives in Great Britain has joined with the country’s leading gun owner rights organization in a federal lawsuit that says nonresident citizens are unfairly being targeted by existing laws that restrict gun ownership to those who live in the U.S.

Attorneys William B. Mateja, a principal in the Dallas and Washington, D.C., offices of Fish & Richardson P.C., and Alan Gura of Alexandria, Va.’s Gura & Possessky, PLLC, filed the federal claim today on behalf of London, England, resident Maxwell Hodgkins and the Bellevue, Wash.-based Second Amendment Foundation.

Mr. Hodgkins, a 31-year-old real estate broker, is asking for a legal injunction that would prohibit federal officials from enforcing several “vague and ambiguous” gun control statutes. A Dallas native, Mr. Hodgkins is an avid gun collector and sportsman who legally owns and stores firearms in the U.S. and holds related permits for weapons possession and concealment.

Mr. Mateja previously served in the current Bush Administration as Senior Counsel to the U.S. Deputy Attorney General. Among other duties, he oversaw the Justice Department's violent crime efforts, including the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms, and President Bush's Project Safe Neighborhood. Prior to that, he served as lead counsel in the notable Second Amendment case U.S. v. Timothy Joe Emerson.

The statutes in question ban the receipt, sale and purchase of firearms by U.S. citizens who claim legal residency outside the U.S. Expatriates cannot buy guns, and while they can receive guns for “lawful sporting purposes,” they cannot do so for lawful self defense while visiting the U.S. The suit claims that these laws violate the Second and Fifth Amendments to the U.S. Constitution. Although Mr. Hodgkins has not been arrested or prosecuted, his attorneys say he could face federal charges should he attempt to access his guns in the U.S.

“These laws serve no useful purpose,” says Mr. Gura. “If Mr. Hodgkins may safely have a gun for target practice or hunting, he can certainly have a gun for other lawful purposes.”

Alan Gottlieb, founder and vice president of the Second Amendment Foundation, says: “The firearms rights of American citizens do not become null and void simply because an individual lives in another country. There is no public safety rationale for laws or regulations that prohibit law-abiding citizens from exercising their rights while they are on American soil. We cannot allow a legal environment to exist where the exercise of a civil right by an American citizen anywhere in the United States is conditional to that person’s country of residence.”
-END-


< Please e-mail, distribute, and circulate to friends and family >
Copyright © 2006 Second Amendment Foundation, All Rights Reserved.

Second Amendment Foundation
James Madison Building
12500 N.E. Tenth Place
Bellevue, WA 98005
Voice: 425-454-7012
Toll Free: 800-426-4302
FAX: 425-451-3959
email: [email protected]


To stop receiving these alerts, send an email to [email protected] with REMOVE in the subject line. This email was sent to [email protected]. To ensure removal, please include this address in your reply.
To ensure your alerts are delivered to your inbox (and not inadvertently diverted to a bulk or junk email folder by spam filters), be sure to add [email protected] to your email address book or contact list.

 

[Blakenzy]

This turns out to be an interesting subject. I would like to see how that law suit turns out. So if you don't have an address in the good ol' USA the Bill of Rights carries as much weight as a wad of toilet paper for you? Even if you are a US citizen that still files a federal tax report every year? Now that doesn't sound right. I suddenly feel betrayed, left out in the cold....

 

[Lou629]

Most of the 'legalize' i've dealt with regarding handguns revolves around your state of residence. ( or lack thereof in your case ) IE: since it is illegal for me to buy a handgun in other than my state of residence, I would think that you would run into this problem right off the bat. As soon as you can't produce a local drivers' license, and/or any other proof of address in the state you happen to try to purchase in, you'll probably be SOL.

 

[Blakenzy]

Would the restrictions or issues concerning the purchase of handguns apply to longarms as well or are these more readily obtainable? This is specifically concerning centerfire rifles (of whatever type of action). What about person to person transfers/sales or are these illegal? Of course it probably depends on what state you are in, but what does federal law dictate?

 

[miconoakisland]

Question at hand

Can a US citizen, without a local US address, purchase a firearm?
Can that same US citizen import a firearm to a foreign country?

In both instances, I would say NO.

Even if a local address was detailed, the chances of importing a firearm to any "third world country" would be prohibited.

As for taking a firearm on a cruise originating in the US (no matter the destination), it would be easier to carry one on a plane! (neigh impossible!)

A USA citizen, living in a foreign country, is held to the host countries laws.
Try buying that Glock, get caught with it, the US embassay ain't gonna do squat!

You wanna have a firearm and retain USA citizenship, live in the USA.
You wanna live in a third world country, retain USA citizenship, buy a machete.

 

[Lou629]

but what does federal law dictate?

I'm not sure of the wording of the federal law(s), or if they even address a situation like yours, but in practical day-to-day terms, when it comes to actually purchasing the guns, state laws effectively end up trumping federal laws anyway.

In some states, about all that's required to purchase a rifle or handgun is a local drivers' license and the cash. Fill out a form 4473 and you're on your way.

Other states require a state-issued firearms ID card along with your drivers' license and the 4473.

Still other states, like my communist gulag, require a seperately issued "permit to purchase" for a handgun, in addition to your FID card and drivers' license, and a completed 4473, and other paperwork for the state.

I think you can see where i'm going with this. Federal law is one thing, but since you can't buy a gun from uncle sam, and have to do it locally, you have to deal with the "law-of-the-land" where you ARE.

 

[Blakenzy]

You wanna live in a third world country, retain USA citizenship, buy a machete.

Thank you for your constructive input, but I already have access to about a half dozen machetes of different shapes and sizes used mainly for gardening. Although formidable CQB weapons, I dunno , machetes just don't do it for me. I think I am more of a gun person. For fun and games I tend to lean more toward those nifty mechanical items that go BANG and send lead downrange in a hurry. I just can't shake this attraction to guns

Back to the subject of my original post: So according to what was said, purchasing weapons without a state drivers liscence is pretty much imposible. Hmm, I wonder how long it would take me to get a drivers liscence in the States? Hell, our dear President wanted to hand out drivers liscences to "guest" workers (read illegal aliens) so I certainly shouldn't have trouble obtaining one, right? (assuming I can drive well and know current traffic regulations)

The problem is I am a little pressed in time. I can only stay for a month, month and a half at most before I must return to my little hell hole of residence due to personal business that does not pertain to this subject. So, when I visit the States I could live in a friend's house for the period of time that it takes to get the liscence, then run to the nearest gunshop or FFL holder, get a nice shiny new quality firearm for a reasonable price, and fly on back with a big smile on my face! Easier said than done I guess.

I repeat again to avoid misundersanding, the issue is about a non resident american legally obtaining firearms in the US, not about a US citizen importing them into a foreign country. That is not the question at hand.

 

[Bruce333]

The problem is I am a little pressed in time. I can only stay for a month, month and a half at most before I must return

That could be the problem depending on which State you will be in. For example, NC has a permit system and you have to be a resident for a certain length of time to get one...so not only Fed. laws but State laws could prevent you from buying...

 

[Lou629]

Getting a drivers' license used to be pretty easy in most states, but can be something of an ordeal anymore. Nowadays, thanks to all the post-9/11 security paranoia, they not only want proof of your address, they also want to see your birth certificate, another form of ID, or two, depending on the state, proof of insurance, and it's getting to the point where i expect them to start asking for a note from your mother too.

 

[utahminirevolver]

I think you could get a local drivers licence and purchase a handgun within a month, or month and a half. And I think it would be legal, in the right states, such as Arizona which requires any new resident to immediately acquire an Arizona drivers licence (lots of states allow you up to three months to get the new drivers licence).

In this case you'd have to surrender your current drivers licence before getting your new local one. Then, when you get back to your third world home, you'd likely have to surrrender your new US state drivers licence to get a local one again. Buying new drivers licences could get to be a pain in the pocketbook, but maybe the new handgun is worth it.

Florida, I've heard, has a special snowbirds drivers licence which does not require you to give up your old one to get, so you save some costs.

Maybe you should check with a local lawyer, to be on the safe side.

 

[CountGlockula]

You may have a problem...

In the state of CA, purchasing a firearm requires a Handgun Safety certificate and a valid utility bill (such as a gas bill or water bill) that has your current U.S. address/name to match up with your driver's license as proof of citizenship/residency.

Sorry bud, you're pretty much...helpless.

Just come back to the good 'ol U.S. of A.

 

[Waitone]

You might consider emailing bATFE and get their observations.

 

[TexasRifleman]

Alan Gottlieb, founder and vice president of the Second Amendment Foundation,

I just love that guy.....

NRA is the 800 lb gorilla, Gottlieb is a vicious dog with SHARP teeth (and a law degree).

Support both.