Putting a little more power in a $15.00 Daisy
Have you deide how you're going to enlarge the hole through the abutment for the ~ 0.010" larger air tube OD to fit? I believe engleracing used a heated piece of tubing to enlarge the seal. But an air tube made from that tubing has to help- less air can escape backwards out of the shot tube and more air can pass into the shot tube. Win-win the way I see it!
Will want to keep an eye on the end of the air tube, watching for any signs of it being peened over by the impact on the BBs. I'd say to make the air tube as long as possible while still feeding reliably. That way, the end could be dressed to remove any damage more times before needing replacement. That is if wear is even an issue.
BTW, I hope we didn't lose engleracing- and he was the one who used delrin for the preload spacer...
Hope we didn't lose him as well. He had some very good ideas.Have you deide how you're going to enlarge the hole through the abutment for the ~ 0.010" larger air tube OD to fit? I believe engleracing used a heated piece of tubing to enlarge the seal. But an air tube made from that tubing has to help- less air can escape backwards out of the shot tube and more air can pass into the shot tube. Win-win the way I see it!
Will want to keep an eye on the end of the air tube, watching for any signs of it being peened over by the impact on the BBs. I'd say to make the air tube as long as possible while still feeding reliably. That way, the end could be dressed to remove any damage more times before needing replacement. That is if wear is even an issue.
BTW, I hope we didn't lose engleracing- and he was the one who used delrin for the preload spacer...It's hell getting old!
As far as enlarging the hole. We found that the abutment fits perfectly in a 7/8" collet. This allows the plastic seal to be held and spun up. A sharp drill to drill it out. Still playing with fit there. Got an extra shot tube assy for the RR to have an extra seal. Oddly it arrived with a rolled and seamed barrel tube as you found in your ME RR. Must be old stock. Not as well made ad the newer ones I have received. I'm not sure I want to do the heat thing. Though that may be the solution....
Planning to make the first air tube 0.125 long. Then shorten it till it feeds reliably.
Mike really wants to do the cut away on a RR to actually measure properly. I think I will donate the 1998 to that. You posted a link to one that was done. Thx!
To be continued!
@hinz57 When we get rolling here, sometimes things get lost in the rush to answer/ask a question. So when you get the time, please let us know how your stock is coming along. I didn't mention it at the time (see first sentence!) but it looks pretty darned nice when you first showed it. It reminded me a little of a Cowboy when looking at the receiver area at the top, and like a sporter center fire stock elsewise.
Questions about the 499. Is the area where the peep sight mounts, actually a dovetail? The peep sight is designed to be mounted on a dovetail.
What is the stroke of the 499? I have carefully measured the 1998 and a RR. Both are
2-3/32".
My initial reaction to the peep sight is favorable.
What is the stroke of the 499? I have carefully measured the 1998 and a RR. Both are
2-3/32".
My initial reaction to the peep sight is favorable.
Something's weird here. I dropped a steel rod down the barrel of a RR, marked the rod. Removed it and cocked the gun, inserted and marked the rod and I'm getting exactly 2" difference between cocked and uncocked. Same results using the same method on a model 105 Buck. Isn't that strange?
Using the same method the 499 measures 2-1/8". But given the discrepancy between our measurements, I don't know how much use this will be.
The 499 does not have a dovetail. The sight mount is a pair of tabs that are formed into the stamped steel "shell" that surrounds the receiver. It can still be used for at least some sights that have a dovetail mount'
Using the same method the 499 measures 2-1/8". But given the discrepancy between our measurements, I don't know how much use this will be.
The 499 does not have a dovetail. The sight mount is a pair of tabs that are formed into the stamped steel "shell" that surrounds the receiver. It can still be used for at least some sights that have a dovetail mount'
So you won't be using the 499 funnel/collet? Does the barrel extension get turned down for use w/the RR barrel plug/front sight, or are you going to enlarge the hole in it? (I think I know the answer to this...)
Cobalt, that's the same measurement method I used. I should have measured my 105 buck before disassembly for comparison. Strange indeed! I will recheck my work. I am interested in this because you and Chris USA have both achieved the elusive 400+ mv, with the single shot and no spring preload. It appears that the most important part is getting All the air down the tube.Something's weird here. I dropped a steel rod down the barrel of a RR, marked the rod. Removed it and cocked the gun, inserted and marked the rod and I'm getting exactly 2" difference between cocked and uncocked. Same results using the same method on a model 105 Buck. Isn't that strange?
Using the same method the 499 measures 2-1/8". But given the discrepancy between our measurements, I don't know how much use this will be.
The 499 does not have a dovetail. The sight mount is a pair of tabs that are formed into the stamped steel "shell" that surrounds the receiver. It can still be used for at least some sights that have a dovetail mount'
Thanks for the info on the mounting system. I'm finding that as is, I have to have the peep down to the bottom and still shoot high at 10 meters. More to fool around with!
No, won't use the collet assy. The plug gets drilled/bored to fit the extension. The extension is 0.375. I wanted to use the stock loading gate. Any bigger and the bb's won't go in. Used the threaded end for the extension. Slightly shorten and recrown. The collet end will be turned to 0.260 - 0.263. Then drilled to fit the abutment. The extension is a bit long to be able to get a final length after assembly.
Got it. Didn't consider how much more space the funnel would take up. This is gonna be a killer shooter, I can tell!
I double checked the stroke as well. You're doing this unloaded, right? Wouldn't want a BB loading itself during the measuring to be messing things up (even though a BB is larger than 3/32" but you know what I mean). But if we're both right, I want your gun! haha
After modifying my 499, I completely ran out of downward elevation using the 5899 peep sight (the one we have). So the gun shot way too high until I switched to the open sight shown above. I thought about using a red dot but I had the open sight handy, so the open sight got the nod. FWIW, the mounting tabs are not as secure as a true dovetail, so mounting anything heavy like a scope, etc. might not work too well.
I double checked the stroke as well. You're doing this unloaded, right? Wouldn't want a BB loading itself during the measuring to be messing things up (even though a BB is larger than 3/32" but you know what I mean). But if we're both right, I want your gun! haha
After modifying my 499, I completely ran out of downward elevation using the 5899 peep sight (the one we have). So the gun shot way too high until I switched to the open sight shown above. I thought about using a red dot but I had the open sight handy, so the open sight got the nod. FWIW, the mounting tabs are not as secure as a true dovetail, so mounting anything heavy like a scope, etc. might not work too well.
Unloaded, yes. Though here is a confession! At one point, I had the measuring rod in while cocked, well... I bet you can guess where this is going. At least it wasn't pointing towards my eye! This one would put your eye out, and more. So I guess there is a way to fire arrows...
Well, I just went through the entire process again. Without the firing of my measuring rod. Who knew that the safety had a purpose.1998 & 70th anniversary RR both at 2-3/32". Put the 105B back together. 2-1/32". So..... who knows. I was very careful in how my rod seated. Could there be some difference in the US production vs. Chinese. Perhaps the imports are more precise than the older US production....Eli Whitney is rolling over in his grave!
I wouldn't rule ANYTHING out when it comes to these little devils. We've already seen quite a bit of difference in internal parts so why not differences in the stampings? I mean, these are just toys, right? (Their way of thinking, not mine.)
I have a disassembled Millennium 2000 here that I will mock up and measure to see if there's a Sino-conspiracy going on here. I'd sure not pass up the extra stroke if I had a choice, that's for sure. And thinking about that, it could account for some of your MV that I don't see, too. I'll get back w/the results but might not be until tomorrow afternoon.
I have a disassembled Millennium 2000 here that I will mock up and measure to see if there's a Sino-conspiracy going on here. I'd sure not pass up the extra stroke if I had a choice, that's for sure. And thinking about that, it could account for some of your MV that I don't see, too. I'll get back w/the results but might not be until tomorrow afternoon.
I measured my '70s era model 104 (originally used a removable shot tube and has a steel trigger which uses a different pivot point than the newer plastic trigger guns) and it is 2-1/8" by my measurement.
The difference in stroke could be caused by the trigger (which type are you using on the guns that have the longer stroke?). And that would be my guess here, unless the receivers are drilled differently for the trigger pivot point.
I have found more trigger types since I last posted about that. I need to get a photo of all the triggers I have so far and get them into the thread. The 'newest' trigger type is a plastic case like the current production, except no anti beartrap rack and the trigger blade is metal, not plastic. I have no idea what it came in originally; it came to me in a parts lot from GB.
The difference in stroke could be caused by the trigger (which type are you using on the guns that have the longer stroke?). And that would be my guess here, unless the receivers are drilled differently for the trigger pivot point.
I have found more trigger types since I last posted about that. I need to get a photo of all the triggers I have so far and get them into the thread. The 'newest' trigger type is a plastic case like the current production, except no anti beartrap rack and the trigger blade is metal, not plastic. I have no idea what it came in originally; it came to me in a parts lot from GB.
Well... I am using the common stock RR/1998 trigger. On the 1998, I removed the bear trap. I did bid on and win 2 more old 1938B's and a 1938 RR. More to compare! I want to play with the #25 shot tube feeder in the 1938.
I am interested in your trigger analysis. That has real promise in the difference in stroke.
I am still trying to determine if there are differences in the plunger tubes in relation to the trigger catch plate and the piston mounting hole distance. Could that change the stroke? Not likely, but looking at possibilities.
Got an air tube and modified abutment finished! Took some experimentation. Shot a string that ranged from 392-398. Will try to shoot a bit more today. Mike has a pin gauge set to precisely measure barrel ID. The #25 is 0.179. The RR barrels I have are 0.178 or 0.179. The 499 is 0.176. I should have the 499 barrel back next Thursday.
I wanted an air tube first to use with the #25 barrel. 392-398 is a pretty big gain. I believe the 499 will let me break 400!
There are still a couple of air tube tweaks to try.
Posting is working today!
