Putting a little more power in a $15.00 Daisy
Haa you totally rock, hinz! Let us know what it shoots like (as I know you will)!!
ETA, what are your thoughts on rethreading a 499 abutment to accept a model 25 shot tube? It has 7/16-14 threads IIRC. That would make installing a 25 shot tube into a new style Red Ryder a doable deal w/o having to use just the straw tube from the 25 shot tube. And the gun would stay a repeater. I haven't checked to see what the difference in thickness there is between the 499 abutment and the 1938B abutment assembly so I need to do that.
ETA, what are your thoughts on rethreading a 499 abutment to accept a model 25 shot tube? It has 7/16-14 threads IIRC. That would make installing a 25 shot tube into a new style Red Ryder a doable deal w/o having to use just the straw tube from the 25 shot tube. And the gun would stay a repeater. I haven't checked to see what the difference in thickness there is between the 499 abutment and the 1938B abutment assembly so I need to do that.
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Cobalt, an interesting idea for sure! The fitting the two together is doable. I need to give some thought to the air tube seal. I think that’s where it becomes more difficult... I’m pretty certain that an air tube must be used with the model 25 to close off the feed port.
At any rate, I need to put together a daisy order. First really need to do an inventory of what I have on hand! I need some 499 abutments for sure. My memory is not what it used to be...
I’m really curious to see how the long 1938b shot tube acts. I’m planning to install it in place of the adapted 499 shot tube in my 1998. Since it has the thin wall air tube, and your spring with 1-1/4” preload, it should tell us the story of tube length!
Thanks for another rabbit trail! More contemplation is required
I hadn't considered the air tube seal, and that is important, at least judging by how poorly a gun shoots with an oversize barrel/abutment seal ID that gives a loose fit between the seal and air tube. It would be convenient if a simple buna O-ring could be sandwiched between the end of the 25 shot tube and the rethreaded 499 abutment but durability could be a problem. Maybe a urethane o-ring would hold up better, or maybe even a simple thin piece of nylon or Teflon w/an air tube OD-sized hole in it could work?
Anyway, don't let me cause you to lose concentration to the "double barrel" 499 project, though! I hope the MV improves, but either way it will still be an important piece of data that's been added to the knowledge base!
Anyway, don't let me cause you to lose concentration to the "double barrel" 499 project, though! I hope the MV improves, but either way it will still be an important piece of data that's been added to the knowledge base!
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Do not understand why no MV increase to speak of. What the he11 am I missing?
Do you think the spring having taken a set after the 1" plus preload has weakened it to the point that it won't perform as well as a un-preloaded HP spring?
ETA- Hinz, that's a very nice stock. Your work, I take it?
Do you think the spring having taken a set after the 1" plus preload has weakened it to the point that it won't perform as well as a un-preloaded HP spring?
ETA- Hinz, that's a very nice stock. Your work, I take it?
You’re not missing anything. In fact a loss in mv, down from a high of 438.
It’s likely that the spring is at least part of the issue. I’m thinking of putting your other spring in with no preload. Also putting my RR spring in w/ no preload. That spring had 1-1/8” preload on it for over a year. It measures 7-3/8”.
Experimentation will be required.
Could be too much barrel friction. But it did better with the better bbs...
The stock is very special indeed! It’s the pink 1998 stock with the paint stripped!
Haa, special all right!
Yeah, the sacked spring couldn't have helped. But even so, I'd have thought it would still spank the short barrel setup. Could the smaller ID of the 499 shot tube be that important? 'Cause if that ain't it, about all we're left with is a running start to the piston or somehow delaying the BB from moving when the gun is fired.
Yeah, the sacked spring couldn't have helped. But even so, I'd have thought it would still spank the short barrel setup. Could the smaller ID of the 499 shot tube be that important? 'Cause if that ain't it, about all we're left with is a running start to the piston or somehow delaying the BB from moving when the gun is fired.
I'm sitting here shaking my head. Now, why didn't I think of that?!? I guess that's why you make the big bucks! lol I really hope the accuracy is there along with a nice jump in MV over a standard RR tube. Again, outstanding job!
Deltaboy1984
Member
Well keep nailing down the variable s!
Deltaboy1984
Member
Thanks for this insite!
Well, that's a marked improvement over the 'double barrel' Red Ryder shot tube- 12.5% ain't easy to come by at this level of performance! And I bet this shot tube is going to be accurate to boot.
I'm still wondering about the "why" of it all, but one thing we can take away from this is there just doesn't seem to be anything to be gained from more spring rate, at least as the gun is currently configured. So save some money and buy a Daisy Red Ryder spring for the 499- regardless of the shot tube being used.
I refuse to say 500 fps is unobtainable, but I will say it's exceedingly elusive- and will remain so- unless/until another epiphany is reached.
I'm still wondering about the "why" of it all, but one thing we can take away from this is there just doesn't seem to be anything to be gained from more spring rate, at least as the gun is currently configured. So save some money and buy a Daisy Red Ryder spring for the 499- regardless of the shot tube being used.
I refuse to say 500 fps is unobtainable, but I will say it's exceedingly elusive- and will remain so- unless/until another epiphany is reached.
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Deltaboy1984
Member
Shoot some soup cans for us and post pictures!
Cobalt, not sure I agree with the daisy spring statement. I have 1-1/8” preload on it and didn’t quite get the results of your spring with no preload.
I think your spring is great! Still would like to see results in the single shot with your HP spring and the modified abutment. Then with the double length 499 tube.
There’s little doubt that the fit of the bb to the tube is critical. Optimum tube length is unknown as well.
I think 500 is possible, but it will be done with the single shot. 452 in a repeater is maybe the limit, or near to it.
More contemplation is required....
I think your spring is great! Still would like to see results in the single shot with your HP spring and the modified abutment. Then with the double length 499 tube.
There’s little doubt that the fit of the bb to the tube is critical. Optimum tube length is unknown as well.
I think 500 is possible, but it will be done with the single shot. 452 in a repeater is maybe the limit, or near to it.
More contemplation is required....
Cvans
Member
- Joined
- Feb 21, 2019
- Messages
- 463
I'd like to thank you folks for all the time and effort you've put into updating this subject. I've just finished reading the whole thing from the start and have found it extremely interesting. Having a Smithy Granite mill and lathe along with some experience modifying air rifles puts your project within my reach.
Personally single shot guns have brought me a lot of pleasure over the years so the 499 seems like a perfect fit. Cobalt have you tried your custom spring in the 499B or would there be a better version of the 499 to use?
Thanks for any help you can provide.
Personally single shot guns have brought me a lot of pleasure over the years so the 499 seems like a perfect fit. Cobalt have you tried your custom spring in the 499B or would there be a better version of the 499 to use?
Thanks for any help you can provide.
Welcome and glad you found us!
Probably the best way would be to start with a 1938B Red Ryder and add the 499B shot tube, abutment and piston. Reusing the RR spring will get you close to or just over 400 fps. The parts needed to make this hybrid are still available directly from Daisy for a good price. So far I haven't adapted an open front sight for this gun yet but a Lasso rail can be easily used to mount an optical sight.
If you want to start with a 499B, they're still being sold but are up to around $160.00 shipped from PA. They come up on eBay fairly often used, so you might catch a deal there. As long as it's good cosmetically, everything else can be still bought from Daisy. For that matter, I built a new 499B from parts I bought from Daisy. When I did that, the cost was a little more than $80.00 IIRC.
Cvans
Member
- Joined
- Feb 21, 2019
- Messages
- 463
Found this on gunbroker and thinking I might order one if nothing used comes up anywhere else.
https://www.gunbroker.com/item/800328782
https://www.gunbroker.com/item/800328782
Check your messages, I might have a lead for you.
Hmm. Interesting. Somewhat puzzling.
Didn’t you have a significantly high mv in the 499? Are there any significant differences in the design of the 499 “power plant” vs the 105/1938b, that might explain anything? I guess I’ll have get a 499 myself at some point.... What differences are there in the A and B variants? Thx!
