Putting a little more power in a $15.00 Daisy

hinz57 said:
...Maybe Cobalt can say what the maximum drill size is that would work well with a stock spring. Seems like 7/64” or #40 worked...
Click to expand...
My original "go-to" tune used a 3/32" air tube. I got a few more fps from a 7/64" tube but the difficulty made it not worth the trouble. That could be more to do w/me and how I drilled it using a hand drill. I haven't done enough testing to know what the difference in MV is between the different ID air tubes, I was so stoked with the performance of my #1 RR using a Hinz 499/1938B hybrid shot tube and custom air tube with my HP spring that I stopped there.

BTW, there was a guy at GTA who posted in the BB gun target shoot thread who uses a .22 shot tube to shoot patched .177 shot. Might have been lead shot, I'll post a link later.
 
I'll have to look, might have a .20 cal.
barrel here. Patching BB's doesn't sound like much fun though.
 
Interesting read. Now I have to try and find my username and password for that site. :(
 
Having nothing better to do, let me throw this into the fire. Anyone ever think about or check, what effect the amount of bbs in the magazine have on accuracy? Just for poops, I weighed out 650 bbs. You can’t hardly get 650 bbs in the magazine (RRider) it’s packed. In fact, I stopped at 550. The shot tube was “imbedded” by bbs.
There’s about 11” of shot tube between the abutment and the support collar. When the plunger flys foreword and slams the abutment with the shot tube floating in it ( it is loosely fitted), does it matter how tightly the shot tube is supported, or not supported, by bbs in the mag.?
Anyone ??
 
That's a very interesting concept- this needs to be investigated! I never thought about it at all but it stands to reason it would also have an effect on how much recoil was felt by the shooter. And that may possibly make a difference in accuracy.
 
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NRADAVE said:
Having nothing better to do, let me throw this into the fire. Anyone ever think about or check, what effect the amount of bbs in the magazine have on accuracy? Just for poops, I weighed out 650 bbs. You can’t hardly get 650 bbs in the magazine (RRider) it’s packed. In fact, I stopped at 550. The shot tube was “imbedded” by bbs.
There’s about 11” of shot tube between the abutment and the support collar. When the plunger flys foreword and slams the abutment with the shot tube floating in it ( it is loosely fitted), does it matter how tightly the shot tube is supported, or not supported, by bbs in the mag.?
Anyone ??
Click to expand...
It certainly seems like a full load would dampen oscillation of the tube...
 
Yesterday I had some time so putting 2 499 shot tubes together was tried. The results weren't very rewarding.
In the below photos a tap was run through the plastic bushing on the end of the barrel so the two shot tubes could be screwed together. Then the barrels were screwed together and placed back in the gun.
20190416_182514.jpg 20190416_210401.jpg 20190416_210323.jpg
After about 5 shots the velocity was at 350 fps. Took the shot tubes back apart and beveled the end of one tube and chamfered the end of the other so they would seal better and the velocity went up to 360 fps. Still not what I was hoping for so took the gun apart to check for spring set. Comparing to the other spring that came with the gun there appears to be no set.
++Mark it appears the two springs are the same length and wire diameter.++
20190416_211110.jpg I did order a bunch of parts this morning including a 105 plunger assy. and another 499 abutment to bore out and move the magnet. Hoping to get this shooting over 400 fps.
 
I must have sent you a second 1938B spring instead of the original 499 spring I meant to send. The 1938B spring shouldn't take a set. What's odd is the spring that was in the gun should be 0.093". Tell me this- does the spring that was in the gun when it was delivered to you have ground and squared ends?
 
They are ground flat. They could be .093 as I'm a little ham handed with a dial caliper on occasion. If I have the caliper at a right angle to the wire it reads .090. But if I have it parallel with the spring it reads .093. Go figure.
20190417_170405.jpg
 
Should be 0.091", 0.093 was wrong. Regardless, they both appear to be '38B springs. A 1938B spring should have been in the gun but the other spring that I included with the gun was supposed to be the original 499 spring. If you email me we can sort this out, no problem.
 
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I'm a little confused so help me get back up to speed on your project. The 499 as delivered should have been over 400 fps. It wasn't?

You think there could be some mismatch between the 499 tube IDs inside the funnel?
 
Mark I'm good with the way the gun came. No problem. :)
The gun was shooting 409 when it came so whatever has happened is My Fault. And I'm not worried about the springs either. I purchased this strictly as a testbed and if it turns out to be more than that great.
Thanks for your concerns.
The tap was run through the funnel from the tapered end so things would stay in alignment, hopefully. When a BB is dropped into the muzzle end of the extended barrel it passes through the splice with no restrictions or clicks. I know the tubes are meeting in the middle because when screwing in the added tube it pushes the original tube out of the funnel.
I did order a number of parts including the 105 plunger assy to try a softer seal. When the new abutment and parts get here next week I'll let you know how the Frankengun works out.
 
Okay, sounds good.

What are you going to plug the air tube hole in the piston with?

I'm sure you're aware but just in case, the 105B spring is the same as the '38B spring.
 
The only way to get the seal was with the plunger kit

I'll have to look at the plunger before deciding on how to fill the hole.

One of the things that could have lowered the velocity was the open gear lube I applied to the spring.
 
Cvans said:
The only way to get the seal was with the plunger kit

I'll have to look at the plunger before deciding on how to fill the hole.

One of the things that could have lowered the velocity was the open gear lube I applied to the spring.
Click to expand...
Somebody found some small silicone plugs. You might try squirting it full of rtv.

I’d have to look a bit closer but I think the 105b /1938b style is a little thicker than the 499. Might lose a small amount of cylinder volume. I think it really wouldn’t make much difference though.

I don’t remember if you have tried one of cobalts HP springs. Or preload on the 1938b spring.

With 18” of 499 tube you should be 450ish.

I only use the zoom spout turbine oil. But that’s just cause it’s handy.

Then to get more, abutment mods are required. At least in my limited experience!
 
Thanks for the information hinz. The 1938 spring came with a preload spacer installed. I used the open gear lube to quiet down the spring twang. Stuff is thick like the bucket grease they used on the old wagon axles. Works good on the magnum air rifles but not so good on a BB gun.
I know what your turbine oil is and use it for a lot of things. I'll use that next time and see if the velocity comes back up. Good stuff and the empty bottles are refilled with different types of oil.
 
After breaking the abutment on my RR #1 that has the hinz 499 barrel-and-a-half, I took it apart and replaced the abutment but before buttoning it back up, I'm waiting on a barrel 'extension' that will cover and protect the portion of the shot tube that extends out past the front sight/barrel plug. I think hitting the exposed shot tube, or tweaking it while installing the plunger assembly was the main cause of the first abutment failure. I say that because of where it broke- in front of the screw holes which is where it would have brioken if the tube was hit, not behind the screws where I'd expect it to break if it was because of the piston hitting the abutment.

So anyway, I broke out the 105/499 hybrid that has the cut down Diana spring for some plinking. I wasn't getting especially good 10m groups with it when I was shooting with the forearm rested and the buttstock against my shoulder. It could be several things: how I'm holding the gun, the increased felt recoil from the strong spring and light weight of the 105 (it does have a RR stock), plus no BBs in the shroud to add any ballast. I plan on adding a length of galvanized waterpipe inside the shroud for weight, along with a longer buttstock and a forearm, then I'll retry shooting groups but until then I'm enjoying the heck out of shooting my usual hanging targets- water bottles mostly, at various distances out to around 35 yards. If I shoot them any closer than 20 yards, they get torn up very quickly, so I'm shooting the more distant targets. It didn't take too many shots to get the hang of what it 'liked' and then I was hitting them as often, if not more so than any of my guns I usually plink with. I'm using the folding peep/vee sight from the Daisy model 25, mounted to the top vertical stock screw. The peep works very well after I opened up the hole a little to compensate for the dark woods behind the targets. (The hole hadn't been drilled yet in the photo below.) In full light it would be okay as delivered. The Vee works just as well and I use it more than the peep. The sight radius is considerably longer using the model 25 sight, so it's overall a good improvement over the non adjustable 105 spring anchor rear sight.

l6A0DSH.jpg
 
Thanks for the update.
That rear sight looks familiar. I was admiring one not long ago. Your thoughts on supporting the extended shot tube seems like a good one. I have a barrel assy coming in case the 499 keeps its longer tube.
 
Are you going to graft a 499 shroud to it to make a l o n g 499?

I got to thinking about the spring lube and I believe it is responsible for a good part of, if not all of the MV loss you're experiencing. I've used grease on a Gamo Shadow 1000 spring that was plagued with some truly epic twang and it damped it very nicely. It also brought the MV down to 855 from 875 fps. This was #2 grease, same as you'd use to pack wheel bearings.
 
cobalt327 said:
Are you going to graft a 499 shroud to it to make a l o n g 499?
Click to expand...
That's the plan if the extended shot tube works out. Was that you that posted a photo of a custom longer fore end for the extended barrel? I might need something like that and I not real good with wood.
The grease I used is at least two times thicker than Multi-purpose grease. :what: Won't be using it again.
 
Yes, I posted a few photos of some stocks that Shane mocked up on non shooting guns and some others he made that were actual airguns or replica cap guns, believe it or not.

This may be the one you remember:

5au9WIV.jpg
 
Yes that's it. Is he still making stocks for customers? Do you have his contact information? I'd appreciate getting it from you if you have it.
 
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