Putting a little more power in a $15.00 Daisy

[Cvans]

Regarding the design of these guns, I have a whole new respect for the early Daisy designers.

You have to think if it works properly over the long haul there must be something right about it. I have so many good memories about my childhood Daisy that I can't imagine a young man growing up without one. Where else can a person spend so little and get so much enjoyment for so many years.

 

[cobalt327]

Well said! Getting my Daisy Cub for Christmas is my favorite childhood memory. To this day- almost 60 years later- a whiff of 3 in 1 takes me right back to that morning.

 

[NRADAVE]

Well said! Getting my Daisy Cub for Christmas is my favorite childhood memory. To this day- almost 60 years later- a whiff of 3 in 1 takes me right back to that morning.

Hate to say, mine goes back 70 yrs. have a photo with my moms notation “about 3 1/2 years old”. I’m cradling a Red Rider. Fortunately grew up away from city lights. Just as a kid today never leaves the house without the phone, I never walked out without the daisy. What experiences they will miss.
Cracking the cap on a new bottle of Hoppes—-

 

[Cvans]

We were city slickers and didn't get BB guns until later in life. Model 1894 and cardboard BB tubes. Hate to think of how many of those tubes my brother and I went through when we were at the cabin. Any of you use those tubes for targets after they were empty. We sure did. We also got pretty good at shooting large hovering dragon flies at close range.

 

[mistertech]

TABLE OF CONTENTS

I attempted to do the modification. I shimmed the spring 5/8" and installed a flat washer as indicated. I drilled the air tube as described. When reassembling, I can't get the spring assembly to go into the barrel far enough. It feels like the air tube is hitting bottom where it goes into the hole at the bottom of the barrel. I have jiggled, tapped and fiddled with it for hours. I even ran a guide wire from the barrel end all the way to the trigger area and put the wire into the air tube to help guide it. I can't see a reason why the spring assembly won't install. I would like help in getting past this problem.


I don't know if there's any interest in this, but if there is I'd be happy to give the details. But briefly, to gain power I enlarged the air tube ID and shimmed the plunger spring. Cost was $0.00, only rub is a drill bit is needed that will reach to the bottom of a 2-3/4" air tube. This is a little longer than some drill bit sets. The shim can be made from a piece of copper tubing, among other things. Lastly, a spring compressor is needed. I used a couple lengths of welding rod and a piece of wood to make one- simple to do.

The $15.00 Daisy Model 105 Buck is the cheapest Daisy I know of, but it uses the same power plant as the Red Ryder so that's why I chose it to use as the guinea pig. There are some differences between the new Daisys and the old Daisys that had removable shot tubes, but the basics are the same so this will work on a large number of lever action as well as pump guns like the Model 25.

The can below shows what my 1 month old factory stock, new production Red Ryder does. along w/the modded Model 105 (can below says "104", but it's really a 105). Both were shot point-blank, using the same BBs. This was repeated w/the same results.

View attachment 750694

 

[cobalt327]

I'm going to assume you're positive the air tube isn't passing into the shot tube the way it supposed to- reason I say this is it sometimes can seem that it hasn't when it actually has.

So if it's for sure hanging up- it can sometimes be frustrating to get the air tube to line up to the hole just right! I will first try to tweak the airtube to be as straight as possible when looking at the plunger assembly from the end. I'm guessing you've already done this. Then I stand the gun straight up and down and work the plunger assembly straight down the compression chamber.

In severe cases I have had to use a length of 11/64" or 5/32" piano wire, guide it down through the shot tube until it comes out the inside of the gun. Then Insert the wire into the end of the air tube same as you did before. It can take the stiffer wire to guide the air tube through, if it's not thick enough it'll bend too much.

Let us know how it goes and good luck!

 

[NRADAVE]

I'm going to assume you're positive the air tube isn't passing into the shot tube the way it supposed to- reason I say this is it sometimes can seem that it hasn't when it actually has.

So if it's for sure hanging up- it can sometimes be frustrating to get the air tube to line up to the hole just right! I will first try to tweak the airtube to be as straight as possible when looking at the plunger assembly from the end. I'm guessing you've already done this. Then I stand the gun straight up and down and work the plunger assembly straight down the compression chamber.

In severe cases I have had to use a length of 11/64" or 5/32" piano wire, guide it down through the shot tube until it comes out the inside of the gun. Then Insert the wire into the end of the air tube same as you did before. It can take the stiffer wire to guide the air tube through, if it's not thick enough it'll bend too much.

Let us know how it goes and good luck!

Found a coat hanger, slightly smaller in dia than most. No idea where it came from—-before my wife’s closet. Works well. And of course you can see thru the loaded bb slot to see the air tube—-if it’s there.

 

[cobalt327]

Some readers may remember me using tin cans to gauge the MV of BB guns before I got a chrony. So I was shooting my reworked 99B out back today (375 fpv MV) and happened to shoot the bottom of a can I had used as a target a few days prior. I was very surprised that the BB didn’t penetrate the bottom of the can- even at nearly point blank range! So I looked closer at it and saw that it was one of the newer seamless cans. After shooting it a few more times w/o penetrating it, I brought it, along with a can with a seam to the shop for some measurements. Turns out the seamless can measured a bit over 0.010” thick on the bottom, the seamed can bottom measured about 0.008”- like they had back when I started using them a couple years ago. I think the steel may also work harden during the process of drawing/forming the seamless can. So that, along with the extra ~ 0.002” thickness means it takes quite a bit more power than the seamed can to fully penetrate.

So if anyone was a bit puzzled why their gun wasn’t getting through the bottom of a can, check to be sure which type can it is before doubting the MV of your gun. I don’t know what MV it takes to get through the seamless can bottom but it’s more than even my hotrod Buck’s 425 fps MV.

 

[Cvans]

That's interesting. I've never shot a can with mine but now you have my curiousity going.

 

[cobalt327]

I recently saw a "new" Daisy lever action BB gun (for sale HERE). It looks much like a 1938B Red Ryder that has a hoop cocking lever (looks plastic, but not positive), no saddle ring (and no extra holes to attach it), has a fiber optic front sight (has always been available from Daisy under p/n 137969-000 for $1.00), and a molded plastic/composite stock in pink, blue or camo. But what really caught my eye was the AD COPY that said it had windage adjustment on the rear sight. Well, turns out it doesn't. Exact same rear sight as the '38B. Shame too, because otherwise the gun will make a good foundation for a hotrod.

 

[mistertech]

I gave up trying to get my shimmed spring assembly to work. Last problem was when assembled I could only cock it halfway. I had it apart a dozen times and never could see what was happening. It guess is was bottoming before contacting the trigger mechanism. One thing I did that I don't think should effect anything is I saw where it was recommended to epoxy a 3/8" wood dowel between the spring support arms to keep them from flexing from the extra spring pressure. I found out a 3/8" dowel was a little too large, so I took a 3/8" bolt, cut the head off, and machined the shank to fit and tack welded it in between the arms. I don't think this caused the problem but I don't have experience with this modification. Soooo, my goal of having a BB gun with more power for a specific purpose hasn't been realized. Tell me, if you will, what I need in the way of a Daisy BB gun that will achieve my goal. New, used, or otherwise.

 

[Cvans]

Maybe you could refresh our memories as to what your goals were.

 

[cobalt327]

I gave up trying to get my shimmed spring assembly to work. Last problem was when assembled I could only cock it halfway. I had it apart a dozen times and never could see what was happening. It guess is was bottoming before contacting the trigger mechanism. One thing I did that I don't think should effect anything is I saw where it was recommended to epoxy a 3/8" wood dowel between the spring support arms to keep them from flexing from the extra spring pressure. I found out a 3/8" dowel was a little too large, so I took a 3/8" bolt, cut the head off, and machined the shank to fit and tack welded it in between the arms. I don't think this caused the problem but I don't have experience with this modification. Soooo, my goal of having a BB gun with more power for a specific purpose hasn't been realized. Tell me, if you will, what I need in the way of a Daisy BB gun that will achieve my goal. New, used, or otherwise.

If the bolt is in the area past the yellow line in the photo below, the lever will hit it, preventing the gun from cocking. The cutaway shows the arc the lever describes when the gun is cocked, so it's easier to visualize.

 

[mistertech]

Ms. Daisy is rockin' and rollin' now thanks to you guys who helped. My steel plug iI installed to support the parallel rails gave me thought. Should I have added the extra weight? Who knows, perhaps it will give the piston and added 'boost' or it might even hinder acceleration. In any case, it seems to hammer the bb's out smartly.

 

[cobalt327]

What do you think was causing it to not want to fully cock?

Maybe you could refresh our memories as to what your goals were.

I also do not remember what the specific goals were... but if it is for using against animals- be it pests or for food- there are FAR better choices out there because these guns are not capable of reliable humane kills.

 

[mistertech]

Needed more power so the target 'hit' could be heard. Thanks again for your good help!

 

[cobalt327]

 

[Cvans]

I'm working with Shane on getting a stock for the 499 frankengun. My gun goes in the mail tomorrow morning and is headed his way. I've picked a stock combination and am working on a color. Thinking about a grey stain but the more I look at the color in this photo the more I'm liking it. Should work good with either the short or extended barrel configuration.

 

[cobalt327]

Gray sounds interesting. Has Shane done a color sample on a scrap piece of maple in gray? The color in the photo looks similar to my #1 RR stock, except a bit darker- I like it!

Are you going with a straight or curved lever? I have to say I like the straight metal lever- it has more room for my fingers inside the lever than the curved lever does.

 

[Cvans]

Has Shane done a color sample on a scrap piece of maple in gray?

Not yet but he is interested in trying it. I had a savage in that color and liked it.

The color in the photo looks similar to my #1 RR stock, except a bit darker- I like it!

Your right. Must be his standard color. His color goes good with the Musket stock.

Are you going with a straight or curved lever?

The lever you put on the gun for now.

 

[cobalt327]

The curved lever allows the stock to have a profile more in keeping with a sporting rifle. The stock profile used with a straight lever is sometimes referred to as a "shotgun style" stock. Truth is, either can look great and there's no right or wrong here anyway!

Kind of interesting thing about his colors- he told me that he uses dyes, not stains. He mixes three different shades in his "go-to" maple finish if I remember correctly. I know he did a lot of testing to come up with a shade that complimented the grain and chatoyance/cat's eye look that the striped maple has. Hard to describe but the thing that struck me the most the first time I handled one of his stocks was the sort of velvety, buttery smooth feel the wood had.

 

[Cvans]

Whatever he's doing it looks very nice and I'm looking forward to getting it in my hands. It was your photos that got me interested in his work. As a matter of fact it's your doing that I'm involved in the mess to begin with.

 

[cobalt327]

Haa!

 

[Cvans]

Well your gun is back in Georgia again. Can't wait to see what Bruce comes up with.

 

[cobalt327]

Shane also gave me a shout that he was working up a 499 stock for you. He's excited about it.