Quckload and pistol data

[jim8115]

Anyone have any experience with ql and handgun loads? I was thinking of buying it, but..A buddy ( who only loads rifles) Let me run some numbers on his, and the results are strange.
38 special using bullseye or w231, 40 S&W using W231, 45 colt using unique, the numbers match my chrono almost exactly. But running the numbers on 357 loads, that i have been using, with published data, the numbers are showing 200-300 FPS off, and showing the loads as unsafe.

Also, for a 40 S&W with 8.5 Grains of Power Pistol and a 155 gr XTP ( data from the latest Hornady Manual )... Is showing as unsafe ( i havent shot any of these yet)

JIM

 

[Nathan Detroit]

It has been a while since I worked with my Quickload, but the first thing that I remeber is that QL uses a closed breech for its calculations and your semi-auto data is also from a closed breech so you would expect velocities to track much better than for revolver loads. What I do to get the velocities to match up is to adjust the barrel length in QL to give me the velocities that I get from a given load. Then I get pretty good velocity agreement with all subsequent loads for that revolver.

As far as pressures matcning up for the .357, remember that there are two pressure standards for the .357. There is the new 35,000 psi standard used with piezoelectric transducers and there is the older 46,000 CUP standard that is used with the old copper crusher system. Both are still current and they are NOT equivalent pressures. I believe QL uses the PSI-based pressure standard for its calculations.

Finally, regarding the lack of agreement between QL and Hornady for the 155 XTP/Power Pistol load, did you use all of the parameters in QL exactly as Hornady had them? For example, was the LOA the same and did QL list the 155 XTP exactly or were you using a "generic" 155 for the calculation?

 

[jim8115]

"Finally, regarding the lack of agreement between QL and Hornady for the 155 XTP/Power Pistol load, did you use all of the parameters in QL exactly as Hornady had them? For example, was the LOA the same and did QL list the 155 XTP exactly or were you using a "generic" 155 for the calculation?"

I used the hornady 155 xtp, in the Hornady bul file. I also adjusted the bullet length, as it was incorrect

 

[ArchAngelCD]

From what I hear QL is a good tool but it's not perfect. I'm guessing you have found one of the things that makes it not so perfect.

 

[918v]

It works OK with some powders, but not others. But in my experience it always overestimates pressure so there won't be any chance of KB.

 

[Dave P]

I like the program, and use it for rifle calculations - quite accurate most of the time. Pistol info, I thought, was a little more iffy.

 

[jim8115]

What I wonder, is if the pressure / velocity numbers are correct, even if the charge info isnt?
For example, 357, nosler 158 JHP, 14.0 grains #9 out of a 6" barrel
Quickload shows that with a velocity / pressure of 1498 / 45685, obviously not safe

I have chrono'd this round at 1296 FPS, if i look at the chart QL pus out, 1296 FPS would be a pressure of between 29710 and 31606.

ANy ideas?

Cartridge : .357 Magnum (SAAMI)
Bullet : .357, 158, Nosler JHP 44841
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 1.590 inch or 40.39 mm
Barrel Length : 6.0 inch or 152.4 mm
Powder : Accurate No.9

Predicted data by increasing and decreasing the given charge,
incremented in steps of 2.0% of nominal charge.
CAUTION: Figures exceed maximum and minimum recommended loads !

Step Fill. Charge Vel. Energy Pmax Pmuz Prop.Burnt B_Time
% % Grains fps ft.lbs psi psi % ms

-20.0 71 11.20 1193 500 24641 6023 80.9 0.671
-18.0 73 11.48 1223 525 26234 6243 82.2 0.650
-16.0 75 11.76 1254 551 27921 6463 83.4 0.631
-14.0 77 12.04 1284 578 29710 6681 84.6 0.612
-12.0 79 12.32 1314 606 31606 6896 85.8 0.594 ! Near Maximum !
-10.0 80 12.60 1345 634 33617 7110 86.9 0.577 ! Near Maximum !
-08.0 82 12.88 1375 663 35750 7320 88.0 0.560 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
-06.0 84 13.16 1406 693 38014 7526 89.1 0.544 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
-04.0 86 13.44 1436 724 40417 7728 90.1 0.529 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
-02.0 87 13.72 1467 755 42971 7927 91.0 0.514 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+00.0 89 14.00 1498 787 45685 8119 92.0 0.500 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+02.0 91 14.28 1529 820 48573 8307 92.8 0.486 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+04.0 93 14.56 1560 854 51649 8489 93.7 0.473 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+06.0 95 14.84 1591 888 54926 8663 94.5 0.460 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+08.0 96 15.12 1622 923 58424 8831 95.2 0.447 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+10.0 98 15.40 1653 959 62159 8991 95.9 0.435 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!

 

[rsrocket1]

I would never use Quickload to predict a max load. I would at any time use it for "what if" situations without the need to buy and compare powders. It certainly comes "close enough" in mid range loads to let you know that the bullet will exit the muzzle and it will not blow up your gun and it is appropriate for your cartridge (no squibs and no kabooms and you don't want to use a powder that burns only 50% but the time the bullet exits the muzzle). From there you can work up a load to get your best accuracy.

I use QL a lot and love it.

 

[Clark]

I own over 50 load books and don't use any of them any more.

I hand load over 60 different cartridges.

I use Quickload for a starting point in guns stronger than the brass, and work up until the brass yields, and then reduce my powder charge by a calculated margin.

I use Quickload for a max load in guns weaker than that brass based on a max pressure I calculate based on the thickness of the steel.

Quickload can be extremely accurate for bottle necked rifle cartridges.
For a given powder, once characterized, the predicted velocity will be in the center of the string of chronograph data.
For bottle necked cartridges using the 1889 Mauser case head with large boxer primer pocket; 22-250, 243, 257 Roberts, 260, 270, 308, 30-06, etc. the threshold of loose primer pockets will be at the same predicted pressure, provided the chrono matches the predicted velocity.
A key to QL accuracy is the start pressure. A start pressure for off the lands might be 2,000 psi, but might be 5,000 psi for jammed into the lands.
Another is bullet length. The QL library has the length of most bullets, but I have to make sure I have the bullet length and the cartridge length right.

So I see a wide variation in load book data for rifles, but a narrow correlation between Quickload's predicted velocity & pressure, and the feed back from chronograph and brass.

Where Quickload screws up:
The velocity may be close for standard type loading of straight wall pistol cartridges, but hot loads are poorly predicted. Quickload may think a double charge of powder in a 9mm is 1,000,000 psi and 2,500 fps, but the reality is that the primer did not even pierce. Quickload acknowledges that it calculates worst case, and the loads with the big fire ball coming out of the muzzle are going to be way off. QL may calculate the energy of the powder getting burned in the barrel, but the hot load blows unburned powder out of the muzzle, where it burns in the fire ball muzzle flash.

QL costs ~ $150, but I would pay 10 or 20 times that, if needed, to get QL.