Question about copper jacket flaking on 9mm ammunition

[John G C 1]

HI
I have a few boxes of 9mm ammunition that I have had sitting around for four years. I took them out the other day and they copper jacket/plating is flaking off rather badly here and there. At first I thought it was grease streaks on the rounds. I do not normally store ammunition this long.

My question is: is this normal for four year old ammunition to start losing the copper jacket/plating?

Thanks

 

[MifflinKid]

Are you sure the ammunition jacketed and not plated?

 

[Zaydok Allen]

I’ve had some ammo sitting around for a lot longer than that. It shouldn’t be flaking off spontaneously. It sounds like they were accidentally exposed to some kind of chemical they shouldn’t have been.

I assume these are factory rounds, not home cooked?

 

[John G C 1]

They are freedom munitions 9mm, new.

Accuracy is excellent, but they look terrible with the copper flaking off exposing lead (?) beneath.

Honestly they have just been sitting on a bookshelf at room temp since I got them.

 

[Zendude]

Freedom Munitions are plated unless the are loaded with a name brand bullet like a Hornady XTP. Sounds like they were over-crimped and cracked the plating.

 

[John G C 1]

Ahh, I will write them.

I would say that out of the five boxes, two boxes are fine and three boxes have significant flaking on at least a third of the rounds.

I think I have some of their 45 ACP set aside. I should check it. A year or two ago I meant to order 230 grain and instead ordered 200, so I just set the half case aside and never got it it.

Thanks

 

[buck460XVR]

Freedom Munitions are plated unless the are loaded with a name brand bullet like a Hornady XTP. Sounds like they were over-crimped and cracked the plating.

I would suspect some form of contamination, either at the factory or during shipment, at the store or at the OP's home and a chemical reaction is making the copper plating lose it's bond to the lead core. Similar to nickle plating flaking off a gun after using the wrong solvent to clean. Could have been something in the lead itself used for the cores that produced the reaction.

 

[reddog81]

It’s be interesting to see a picture of the rounds. If applied correctly the plating should last forever just sitting in a house.

 

[792mauser]

I'm going with contamination

I've got some berrys plated 9 and 45 projos that I crimped the bejeezus outta, and they're fine-ish.

Got copper washed ammo that's eons old and it's fine.

Got a 20 round pack of chicom 7.62x39 that I left in the kitchen and the gf put it "away" under the sink with all the cleaning equipment, 2 months later... some of the rounds had flakey copper and now had rust.

 

[LiveLife]

They are freedom munitions 9mm, new ... they look terrible with the copper flaking off exposing lead (?) beneath.

Honestly they have just been sitting on a bookshelf at room temp since I got them.

It’s be interesting to see a picture of the rounds. If applied correctly the plating should last forever just sitting in a house.

If they were stored in factory boxes, copper plating should remain intact, even after 4 years.

Over time, copper plating may tarnish but should not flake off.

I have boxes of X-Treme copper plated bullets that are several years old and they are pristine with shiny copper plating.

 

[LiveLife]

9mm [Freedom Munitions] ... have significant flaking on at least a third of the rounds ... copper plating is flaking off rather badly here and there.

is this normal for four year old ammunition to start losing the copper ,,, plating?

No.

If they are indeed flaking copper plating, yes, customer service should be called

BTW, Freedom Munitions and X-Treme Bullets were both owned by HMT Group and recently bought by Kash CA Inc. - https://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog...-x-treme-bullets-are-now-under-new-ownership/

Freedom Munitions likely use X-Treme plated bullets. These are X-Treme 100 gr plated RNFP bullets stored in factory box on the shelf for about 7 years. Box has been opened to room air multiple times for reloading sessions.

OP's factory Freedom Munitions bullets should look the same.

 

[John G C 1]

Just to be clear, I have not issue with Freedom Munitions. In fact, these 124 grain HPs are extremely accurate out of my STI 1911. They group very well and consistently! So no problem with FM.

I will try to attach a picture. I just notice this happening on my case of ammo that is about 4 years old. I checked another old case of Geco and there was no problem.

 

[LiveLife]

That is definitely copper plating flaking off. Shooting them will likely lead your barrel.

Yes, you should contact customer service and reference this thread if they have any questions.

Keep us posted.

 

[John G C 1]

I just got out the old case I have on freedom munitions 45 ACP. I bought it around the same time and it does not have this flaking.

I will write them and see what they say and then report back. Thanks

 

[John G C 1]

Just to follow up

Here is what Freedom Munitions replied: these cartridges are still safe for you to use. There are multiple reasons for this to happen. Typically it is storage conditions.

Yeah, ok, but I looked through a few old boxes of Aguila, Winchester and Geco and did not find ANY flaking. And all these old boxes are stored together. There was even a box of Freedom 45 ACP that was in perfect shape.

I guess if I get any more Freedom ammo I would want to shoot it ASAP. Their 9mm 124 does group well out of my 1911!

 

[LiveLife]

Here is what Freedom Munitions replied: these cartridges are still safe for you to use.

They may be safe for you to use as in not blow up your gun but likely, they will lead your barrel.

 

[fxvr5]

Just to follow up

Here is what Freedom Munitions replied: these cartridges are still safe for you to use. There are multiple reasons for this to happen. Typically it is storage conditions.

Yeah, ok, but I looked through a few old boxes of Aguila, Winchester and Geco and did not find ANY flaking. And all these old boxes are stored together. There was even a box of Freedom 45 ACP that was in perfect shape.

I guess if I get any more Freedom ammo I would want to shoot it ASAP. Their 9mm 124 does group well out of my 1911!

Aguila, Winchester and Geco use copper jacketed bullets. Copper plating is very different than copper jacketed.

The fuzzy picture makes it look like it could just be corrosion. Try rubbing the 'flaked' bullets with a towel or paper towel. This will help determine if it is flaking or if what you're seeing is just corrosion. If it is corrosion, it will rub off the black stuff.

If the copper is flaking off, the flakes of copper will be in the box.

 

[JohnKSa]

Yeah, ok, but I looked through a few old boxes of Aguila, Winchester and Geco and did not find ANY flaking. And all these old boxes are stored together. There was even a box of Freedom 45 ACP that was in perfect shape.

It's worth repeating that copper plating is not the same as copper jacketing. They are very different.

Aguila, Winchester, Geco, and most other mainstream ammo makers use copper jacketing which is quite thick and will not flake. It is typically made from a copper "cup" that is pre-shaped, then filled with a lead core, and then swaged/pressed to final shape.

Your ammunition uses copper plating on the bullets. Copper plating is quite thin and can flake under some conditions--although it's kind of unusual and shouldn't really happen. The copper is applied to an already shaped bullet in a coat that is typically very thin--not anywhere nearly as thick as even the thinnest copper jackets.

You are not going to be able to draw any conclusions about the viability of your flaking copper-plated ammo by looking at copper-jacketed ammo.

 

[LiveLife]

Regular plated bullets can have copper plating thickness from .004" to .008" (thickness of average human hair) - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...ng-at-25-50-yards.808446/page-3#post-10470195

Thicker plated bullets can have copper plating thickness from .008" to .014" with Speer Total Metal Jacket (TMJ trademark) around .015" and Speer Gold Dot around .018".

In comparison, gilding metal (copper alloy) thickness of jacketed bullets can range from .015"+.

RMR's Jake on plating thickness - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...ullets-vs-plated-bullets.776330/#post-9850850

RMR reports they use around .023" jacket thickness for their in-house jacketed bullets.

There shouldn’t be a limit to the 95 grain bullet. Most .224 jackets are 18-20 thousandths.

Our FMJ are 23 thousandths. They can handle anything you throw at them

 

[John G C 1]

I did rub and the bullet is down to the lead. On some of them, there is about 1/5 lead showing. I prefer to shoot jacketed or I would have purchased lead.

I store all my ammo inside in the same location at room temp.

I was hoping they would give me free shipping on my next order or something. But I can see where they can not be sure how I stored it and it was 3-4 years old.

Can't worry too much about it. Thanks for all the info. I probably won't get more FM ammo but if I do I will shoot it up and not just stick any aside.

Regards

 

[LiveLife]

I did rub and the bullet is down to the lead. On some of them, there is about 1/5 lead showing. I prefer to shoot jacketed or I would have purchased lead ... I store all my ammo inside in the same location at room temp.

I probably won't get more FM ammo but if I do I will shoot it up and not just stick any aside.

Over 20 years ago, I had seen similar peeling of copper plating with bullets I bought from local regional bullet supplier. After I switched to Berry's plated bullets and Rainier Ballistics, Power Bond, Speer TMJ/Gold Dot, HSM, X-Treme, RMR plated bullets with same storage conditions for years/decades, never saw peeling of copper plating again.

I checked my boxes of X-Treme 380Auto/9mm/40S&W/45ACP bullets I had bought going back 10+ years and none of them show any signs of copper plating flaking and they all look like picture I posted above.