Question On Drawing Down On Private Land

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@all, I asked here more out of personal curiosity than helping him. He would refuse the help either way. From what I've read here, it seems like my buddy is in a big, steaming kettle of half rotten fish. I'll leave him to it. He's always been quick to "jump the gun", and I have (quite frankly) grown tired of dealing with him and his antics. Good friend, he's just gotta learn that Earth doesn't rotate around him.
 
The trespassing individual drew a large knife and made known his intent towards my friend. Buddy had a SA revolver in .45 on his hip, and laid hand to it and drew when the individual made known his intent.

This sounds like lawyer speak, what did the trespassing individual say or do?

A “where am I?” Or “Do you know how to get back to the road?” might not warrant a draw.


He's the type who (similar to myself) is young, dumb, and thinks he's bullet proof. Unlike me, he doesn't listen to logic or reason.

That’s not lawyer speak at all.

We were all young and dumb at one point, even before girls made me even dumber I was taught that no one should know you are armed until you have shot them. I will say that the number of people I have drawn a firearm upon, equals exactly the number of people I have I have shot, zero. Watched too many movies to potentially escalate a situation unnecessarily, potentially have a firearm taken from me and then used against me. Also, never run “up” or straight down the middle of the road away from danger.

Would certainly report to police at this point, if the guy is nuts he’s mulling over how to “show that guy” now and knows where to find your buddy.
 
This sounds like lawyer speak, what did the trespassing individual say or do?

A “where am I?” Or “Do you know how to get back to the road?” might not warrant a draw.




That’s not lawyer speak at all.

We were all young and dumb at one point, even before girls made me even dumber I was taught that no one should know you are armed until you have shot them. I will say that the number of people I have drawn a firearm upon, equals exactly the number of people I have I have shot, zero. Watched too many movies to potentially escalate a situation unnecessarily, potentially have a firearm taken from me and then used against me. Also, never run “up” or straight down the middle of the road away from danger.

Would certainly report to police at this point, if the guy is nuts he’s mulling over how to “show that guy” now and knows where to find your buddy.
My buddy has been very vague about this.
 
From what I've read here, it seems like my buddy is in a big, steaming kettle of half rotten fish.
That will depend upon who may say what to whom.

Ten years ago, in gun friendly New Hampshire, a land owner cane upon a trespasser on his property. The land owner was armed.

The trespasser reported that a gun had been pointed at her. The land owner said otherwise. He said-she said.

He got three to six.

The sentence was later commuted, but he remains a felon.
 
That’s generally not a good sign. Kind of like markings on the wall and you ask the only child in the house “what happened here?” And they start off with “Maybe somebody...”
I suspect as much myself. I ask for details and he beats around the bush. Either you tell me *exactly* what happened; or I have reason to suspect you are at fault.
 
"...trespassing individual drew a large knife and made known his intent...."
This is not a "remove the trespass" situation.
This is deadly/imminent threat.
That said, this was not a dwelling, and retreat (was?) practical.

Back off/Report ASAP.
That way you've
a. Not killed anyone
b. Not put yourself in position to be prosecuted/go through a trial where it's only your word.
c. HAVE established a record complaint of said threat if it occurs again.
 
I suggest that Mr. Mosin print out this thread and give it to his 'friend'. Come back and tell us what the stinking kettle of fish thinks of the analyses presented here.

That will probably remove him from your 'friends' list and problem solved. I won't be around him if he was carrying - YMMV.
 
Back off/Report ASAP.
That way you've
a. Not killed anyone
b. Not put yourself in position to be prosecuted/go through a trial where it's only your word.
c. HAVE established a record complaint of said threat if it occurs again.

Reporting first may mitigate the risk of a bad outcome in the event of the second item, but it cannot be relied upon to prevent a trial.

And remember, while being the first to report is always the thing to do, bad guys do that too, as described by Massad Ayoob.
 
So we basically have a whole lot of speculation and opinions with no direct evidence of any kind. A third party he said (kinda said) vs some unknown.

"How it would turn out in court", no one can possibly answer as there is Nothing. Other then he should have recorded it on his phone and called the police before getting stabbed.???o_O (if indeed that is what really happened)
 
So we basically have .... no direct evidence of any kind.
We know of no direct evidence other than testimony that would be introduced, should it go to trial.

One would think the testimony of both parties to be questionable.

But the trespasser could probably give a good description of the single action revolver, while it might be difficult to describe the knife with any specificity. A jury just might choose to believe the latter.

There wasn't much more to go on in the 2010 New Hampshire case, yet the man with the gun was convicted.

....there is Nothing. Other then he should have recorded it on his phone and called the police before getting stabbed.???
Of course not. That's ridiculous.
 
Buddy was hiking here recently, and come upon an individual of ill intent on private land (his private land). The trespassing individual drew a large knife and made known his intent towards my friend. Buddy had a SA revolver in .45 on his hip, and laid hand to it and drew when the individual made known his intent. My buddy is not pressing charges, and I doubt anything to come of this from the trespassing individual's side (if it must be known, he is a well known local drug addict). If something like this was to go to court, what would come of it ? For reference, this happened in MS.

I don't see what's wrong here. Can someone enlighten me? Other than your buddy should have called the police (and still should), this seems reasonable to me. If you are hiking on your own private property, and you come across a trespasser who draws a dangerous weapon and threatens you with it, you are certainly within right and reason to draw a firearm. Assuming he reports this to the police, the fact that he reported it to the police and was armed on his own property and that the other individual is well known to the criminal justice system would seem to indicate that your buddy will be entirely cleared. Now, the lack of evidence means that probably nothing would happen to the 'individual of ill intent,' if that was the question.
 
My two cents, probably worth less than that.
Do you believe it really happened? All of it?
Do you think it is in your best interests to keep this guy on your best buddy list?
My guess is there is a lot of exaggeration in his story. I'd part ways if this normal for him. You are doing yourself no favors maintaining this association.
You can't choose your relatives but you can choose your friends.
Best luck.
Stan
 
I don't see what's wrong here. Can someone enlighten me?
I'll try.

f you are hiking on your own private property, and you come across a trespasser...
That's rather irrelevant here.

"My own property" and "his own property " are not major factors in most use of force law. The same laws regarding displaying, threatening with, or using deadly weapons apply equally in the space between the street and the sidewalk.

who draws a dangerous weapon and threatens you with it, you are certainly within right and reason to draw a firearm.
That would be true anywhere--if it happened that way, and if the evidence indicates otherwise, woe be the man who drew.

Assuming he reports this to the police, the fact that he reported it to the police and was armed on his own property and that the other individual is well known to the criminal justice system would seem to indicate that your buddy will be entirely cleared.
Reporting it first and with in a reasonable time would help a lot.

Being armed on one's own property is not the issue . The issue is whether he was justified in drawing on another person, and whether the evidence will support that claim. Others would decide that.

The alleged record of the other man would not help in a defense of justification, unless the man who drew knew about something relevant before the fact.

Does that help?
 
Our property is adjacent to a recreation area as in "State Park". Yes we have occasional trespassers, but on the other hand, we don't have the property posted either. We've had the opportunity to meet interesting and not so interesting persons. Most of these individuals are simply lost or have taken the path of least terrain resistance. There are foot hills to mountain's here! Being confrontational even when you perceive yourself to be in the right is possibly problematic. We have a County Sherriff's Dept. for that.
 
My two cents, probably worth less than that.
Do you believe it really happened? All of it?
Do you think it is in your best interests to keep this guy on your best buddy list?
My guess is there is a lot of exaggeration in his story. I'd part ways if this normal for him. You are doing yourself no favors maintaining this association.
You can't choose your relatives but you can choose your friends.
Best luck.
Stan
You make a very good point. He is also careless with firearms.
 
I'll try.

That's rather irrelevant here.

"My own property" and "his own property " are not major factors in most use of force law. The same laws regarding displaying, threatening with, or using deadly weapons apply equally in the space between the street and the sidewalk.

That would be true anywhere--if it happened that way, and if the evidence indicates otherwise, woe be the man who drew.

Reporting it first and with in a reasonable time would help a lot.

Being armed on one's own property is not the issue . The issue is whether he was justified in drawing on another person, and whether the evidence will support that claim. Others would decide that.

The alleged record of the other man would not help in a defense of justification, unless the man who drew knew about something relevant before the fact.

Does that help?

I understand those things, but again, I'm still not seeing the problem, assuming that the account we have is accurate.
 
I understand those things, but again, I'm still not seeing the problem, assuming that the account we have is accurate.
I'll try again.

What the man said will not establish that his actions were lawful--even if they were.

Got it?
 
I'll try again.

What the man said will not establish that his actions were lawful--even if they were.

Got it?

Oh I see what you're saying, yes - even assuming everything happened the way it was described, there's no evidence one way or the other except the testimony of the people involved. I think it's unlikely the the other person would report, but the OP's friend is not helping his case by not calling it in.
 
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