Poper
Member
If a person wins an auction using someone else's account, could/would that constitute a "straw purchase"?
Question regarding Gunbroker (and similar) auctions
- Thread starter Poper
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Are they buying the firearm for someone else who can not legally own or possess a firearm?
AlexanderA
Member
The actual transfer is a totally separate procedure from winning the auction. In the case of an interstate sale, the firearm would presumably be sent to an FFL in the buyer's home state. Then the firearm would be delivered to the person who fills out the Form 4473. I don't see a straw purchase here. Using someone else's auction site account would be like using someone else's credit card. This has to do with the payment, not the firearm transfer. It might raise red flags, though.
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OP
OP
Poper
Member
I have no idea.
I noticed the email account of the person I am communicating with (and his name) are not the same as the Gunbroker contact information.
For instance, the name on the GB account is "Ron" and the person sending me email is signing it as "Chris". Neither is someone I know. It is an out of state transaction and I always use an ffl and ship to an ffl.
I noticed the email account of the person I am communicating with (and his name) are not the same as the Gunbroker contact information.
For instance, the name on the GB account is "Ron" and the person sending me email is signing it as "Chris". Neither is someone I know. It is an out of state transaction and I always use an ffl and ship to an ffl.
dogtown tom
Member
No. Not in any way, shape or form.
A straw purchase occurs when someone other than the actual buyer completes and signs the Form 4473. It matters not one bit if the actual buyer is not otherwise prohibited from possessing firearms.
It would be a good idea to make the receiving FFL aware of the situation BEFORE the firearm is shipped so that he will be aware of who the actual buyer/transferee really is. It's likely that the seller will use the GB account holders name and contact info on the invoice/packing slip. Some dealers would refuse such a transaction if the person who shows up to fill out the 4473 isn't the same name as the one on the invoice.
Being that it's not difficult to create your own GB account......why would you use someone else's account? The first thing that comes to my mind is fraud. If it smells fishy it is fishy. Do not ship until the money order has actually cleared your bank (a couple of weeks) or you have cashed it at the post office.
bearman49709
Member
Being that it's not difficult to create your own GB account......why would you use someone else's account? The first thing that comes to my mind is fraud. If it smells fishy it is fishy. Do not ship until the money order has actually cleared your bank (a couple of weeks) or you have cashed it at the post office.
I've used my buddies account for years,keeps me from impulse buying and I pay and fill out the 4473.
I've used my buddies account for years,keeps me from impulse buying and I pay and fill out the 4473.
Captcurt
Member
No biggie. I just got an GB email from Polygirl signed Steve. I don't know if Steve is Trans or using someone else's account? Doesn't matter because I will ship to a dealer and "Steve" will fill out the 4473. No straw here.
OP
OP
Poper
Member
I wasn't sure about the straw buyer thing, but having the FFL doing the actual transfer, it then makes sense why not a straw purchase. Thank you.
"Do not ship until the money order has actually cleared your bank (a couple of weeks) or you have cashed it at the post office."
SOP for me. Credit union requires 12 business days for MO or checks to clear.
Also, if someone is willing to send money via Moneygram (surprisingly affordable for larger sums!), I am willing to split the fee with them. That takes the guess work and wait out of the money part of it.
"Do not ship until the money order has actually cleared your bank (a couple of weeks) or you have cashed it at the post office."
SOP for me. Credit union requires 12 business days for MO or checks to clear.
Also, if someone is willing to send money via Moneygram (surprisingly affordable for larger sums!), I am willing to split the fee with them. That takes the guess work and wait out of the money part of it.
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Thanks for the question. As the other folks have explained, using another persons account on GB isn't a straw purchase. A "straw purchase" is a legal phrase used by ATF on the 4473 in order to determine if you "Are the actual transferee/buyer of the firearm(s) listed on this form." However.... currently there is a scam in GB involving sellers that may be of interest to you. There are several variations, but in general, the scam works like this. You bid on an item and are the winning bidder, but there is a little note at the bottom of the item description instructing you to "wait for the invoice" or something like that. So you wait a day or two and finally get an invoice telling you to send the money to an address that does not match the contact information of the seller as listed on GB. So you send the money to the place listed on the invoice and wait, and wait and .... wait. Finally, you get concerned and contact the seller only to learn... surprise -- he claims that he never received the money! Yea, you sent it where he told you to send it, but it's not the guy's address as listed on GB so, you're just basically out of luck. If you sent a money order, you can try to make a claim, but it's probably already been cashed, so there's no help there. Sometimes these guy's will have the item listed again even before they tell you that they haven't received the money. Another variation of the scam is that you get an email almost immediately after the end of the auction telling you where to send the money. Of course that address is different than the seller's official contact address, but everything else is the same, so you send the money. And wait, and wait, and .... wait. You probably guessed it; after a few days you contact the seller who claims that he never received the money and that "the email must have been fake." Well, who was the only person other than yourself who 1) knew you won auction, 2) knew the item number of the auction, and 3) had your email address? Yea, it was a "fake" a fake on the part of the seller to get into your wallet. Hope this helps. Let us know how it goes.
OP
OP
Poper
Member
I have never blocked NR buyers just because we all start somewhere. The "crap shoot part of it seems to be sometimes they do not read the GB rules and think they do not have to abide by them.
OP
OP
Poper
Member
Another interesting twist developed today.
The Buy-It-Now price on the auction said: "Use the “Buy It Now” and seller will pay for shipping, insurance and seller’s FFL transfer fee."
The fellow that won the auction blew past my Buy-It-Now price thinks because he didn't use the Buy-It-Now and bid more than the Buy-It-Now, he shouldn't have to pay the shipping, insurance or FFL fee. I generally do not ask for packaging costs, and did not in this instance, either, even though I send most firearms in some kind of soft case or hard case. He also threatened, that if I insist he pay those costs, he will leave negative feedback.
I offered a compromise: I will split all those costs with him IF he will pay via Moneygram and I will cover half of that fee (about $60), too. That is $30 apiece. Keep in mind, we are talking about an auction result that was over $2,500 and this guy is sqwaking about him not using the $2,000 BIN price.
The Buy-It-Now price on the auction said: "Use the “Buy It Now” and seller will pay for shipping, insurance and seller’s FFL transfer fee."
The fellow that won the auction blew past my Buy-It-Now price thinks because he didn't use the Buy-It-Now and bid more than the Buy-It-Now, he shouldn't have to pay the shipping, insurance or FFL fee. I generally do not ask for packaging costs, and did not in this instance, either, even though I send most firearms in some kind of soft case or hard case. He also threatened, that if I insist he pay those costs, he will leave negative feedback.
I offered a compromise: I will split all those costs with him IF he will pay via Moneygram and I will cover half of that fee (about $60), too. That is $30 apiece. Keep in mind, we are talking about an auction result that was over $2,500 and this guy is sqwaking about him not using the $2,000 BIN price.
dogtown tom
Member
I would tell him to pay as specified or you'll have him banned as a nonpaying blackmailer.
Why are you offering any compromise?I offered a compromise: I will split all those costs with him IF he will pay via Moneygram and I will cover half of that fee (about $60), too. That is $30 apiece. Keep in mind, we are talking about an auction result that was over $2,500 and this guy is sqwaking about him not using the $2,000 BIN price.
JONWILL
Member
- Joined
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You reminded me of a sale 9 day, had a couple of years ago. Had "Buy Now". NR buyer hit the buy now selection. He immediately sent me a trade. Some old POS Iver Johnson top break for my M1A. Refused the trade and he disappeared It was the lowest priced M1A listed. Pretty sure it was another Sellers shill account to knock my rifle out
OP
OP
Poper
Member
No. I think he was stupid for not taking the BIN price. He had his chance to take advantage of my stupid (putting up a BIN price) and did not do so. His stupid should hit him in the wallet, not me.
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OP
OP
Poper
Member
I have it in writing (email) that I went the extra distance to resolve his problem. If he leaves bad feedback (I expect he will) I will provide the email string to GB and request his FB be changed or eliminated.Why are you offering any compromise?
Captcurt
Member
I may have to start blocking them. I have had 3 no-pays in the last month. Two were newbies to the auction and one was a victim of of Maria. I let that one ride, but the other two were reported to GunBroker.
"No. I think he was stupid for not taking the BIN price. He had his chance to take advantage of my stupid (putting up a BIN price) and did not do so. His stupid should hit him in the wallet, not me."
It hit him in the wallet to the tune of $500 , so how did it effect your wallet in any negative way ? Sorry, I just think you are milking the error for everything you can get. That's your choice, but in my opinion, not a very ethical one.
But of course what is ethics in comparison to more money ? Nothing I guess.
It hit him in the wallet to the tune of $500 , so how did it effect your wallet in any negative way ? Sorry, I just think you are milking the error for everything you can get. That's your choice, but in my opinion, not a very ethical one.
But of course what is ethics in comparison to more money ? Nothing I guess.
OP
OP
Poper
Member
So according to you, the buyer's mistakes are more virtuous than the seller's need to maximize his return?
Let's go down that "moral road" for a second. My necessity for selling in the first place is to help pay medical expenses for my wife's cancer treatments.
His expenditure of money is for pleasure/hobby/non-essential.
IMHO, using your standard of ethics, my wife's needs outweigh his pleasure.
No one forced the buyer to bid. If he didn't want to pay for the auction and the fees he shouldn't have bid. It's a pretty simple concept.
Regarding the OP - Some people use middle names or nicknames regularly. I work with someone named Victoria that goes by Sam...
Regarding the OP - Some people use middle names or nicknames regularly. I work with someone named Victoria that goes by Sam...
Sorry to hear about your wife's medical issues. I am so far a cancer survivor myself and wish her the best.
I fail to see a connection regarding how the transaction has anything to do with what the money is used for in this matter, but like I said - it's your choice what you will and will not do to justify for more extra money. My opinion is that a $500 bonus over your buy it now price should be satisfactory. We disagree , and in the end I have no dog in the hunt . I'll leave it at that.
I fail to see a connection regarding how the transaction has anything to do with what the money is used for in this matter, but like I said - it's your choice what you will and will not do to justify for more extra money. My opinion is that a $500 bonus over your buy it now price should be satisfactory. We disagree , and in the end I have no dog in the hunt . I'll leave it at that.
OP
OP
Poper
Member
I guess, I have no sympathy for the dingaling that would pass up what he obviously thought was a good deal, just so that he could spend more for the item. I myself, have used the BIN option for an item I thought was worth the BIN when I wanted it and there were other people bidding on it. I have never been sorry for doing so, either. I will give one example: About 6 years ago, I was actively looking for a particular revolver. One finally popped up on GB with a starting bid of $200 or so and BIN of $520. I watched it for a few days and there was some pretty active bidding that ran the price up to just over $400. With almost a week to go, I used the BIN without entering any other bids. I have never regretted it. I have only seen a few on GB since and none in the condition of the one I bought. It will be the last handgun I sell, if things get that desperate. Believe me, I regularly pray they do not.
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