Questions about reloading disassembled rounds

[Rochester]

Hi all! In a previous post I asked about reduced 30-06 loads and stated I was having problems finding large rifle primers. I came up with an idea (it may be hair-brained) that I’d like to run by you. I bought a bench press, 30-06 dies and trimmer, etc. I have about 40 hunting rounds that I’ll never use. Thought about pulling bullets, and reloading with reduced powder. I bought some 150 gr, gas-checked, Hi Tek coated, cast lead bullets to try out.

Ed Harris wrote: We also tested cast bullets, loaded without a gascheck, comparing against the Ball M2 pulls. Cast bullets were cast in bulk from wheelweights using gang molds, culled by visual inspection only, tumbled in Lee Liquid Alox, and loaded as-cast without sizing. Cast bullet groups were as good or better than the M2 Ball pulls. Velocities were higher with lubricated cast bullets than with jacketed bullets fired with the same powder charge and approached 1400 f.p.s. with 8 grains of Bullseye. We found it advantageous to reduce charge with plainbased cast bullets below 1300 fps to reduce leading which impairs accuracy over long strings of fire. The minimum charge which shot accurately at 100 yards was metered with RCBS Little Dandy powder rotor #11 which throws 6 grains of Bullseye. The maximum charges which shot well over long strings of fire with soft plainbased bullets were with rotors #13 and #14 which meter charges of 7.2 and 7.8 grains, respectively. These are great for low cost practice, training, and small game, useable in any sound .30-’06 rifle.
​

I could try a few of these, because I have Bullseye (and the Little Dandy), but with gas-checked 150 gr bullets, there are choices available in the Lyman Lead Reloading manual too. BTW, Harris was using 150 gr cast bullets.

I am guessing that after I pull the jacketed bullets, the lead coated bullets (they are supposed to be .309) might not be easy to fit in. I know I shouldn’t resize casings with primers, but can I remove the decapping pin on the resizing die and run them through to expand the necks? Use a collet neck sizing die? I didn’t buy the collet neck sizing die because I got so many who advised to use full-length resizing, but I could buy it. Other ideas?

I’ve never loaded cast bullets. Going forward, is it going to be different from loading jacketed bullets?

 

[Skgreen]

can I remove the decapping pin on the resizing die and run them through to expand the necks?

Absolutely, providing you only remove the decapping pin and leave the expander in place.

I’ve never loaded cast bullets. Going forward, is it going to be different from loading jacketed bullets?

Someone else will need to provide guidance here.

 

[Bearded Phil]

I've only loaded cast bullets for straight wall cases like .357 Mag and 45-70 Gov't but for a bottle neck case like 30-06 I believe the only difference between the cast and jacketed is you'll want to add a Lyman "M" type of die to expand the case mouth for cast bullets before seating. With jacketed bullets the smooth copper jacket's tension against the inside of the case mouth is what keeps the bullet from moving and helps build proper pressure during ignition but if you try to do that with a cast bullet the case mouth is going to shave alloy from the side of the bullet (re: the bearing surface) reducing the diameter and causing performance issues.

I also think it's recommended to remove any extra case flare and keep that bullet in place. As to whether a taper or roll would be best I'm not sure, like Skgreen I'll have to leave that to someone more experienced with cast in bottle neck cartridges.

 

[GeoDudeFlorida]

Hi all! In a previous post I asked about reduced 30-06 loads and stated I was having problems finding large rifle primers. I came up with an idea (it may be hair-brained) that I’d like to run by you. I bought a bench press, 30-06 dies and trimmer, etc. I have about 40 hunting rounds that I’ll never use. Thought about pulling bullets, and reloading with reduced powder. I bought some 150 gr, gas-checked, Hi Tek coated, cast lead bullets to try out.

Ed Harris wrote: We also tested cast bullets, loaded without a gascheck, comparing against the Ball M2 pulls. Cast bullets were cast in bulk from wheelweights using gang molds, culled by visual inspection only, tumbled in Lee Liquid Alox, and loaded as-cast without sizing. Cast bullet groups were as good or better than the M2 Ball pulls. Velocities were higher with lubricated cast bullets than with jacketed bullets fired with the same powder charge and approached 1400 f.p.s. with 8 grains of Bullseye. We found it advantageous to reduce charge with plainbased cast bullets below 1300 fps to reduce leading which impairs accuracy over long strings of fire. The minimum charge which shot accurately at 100 yards was metered with RCBS Little Dandy powder rotor #11 which throws 6 grains of Bullseye. The maximum charges which shot well over long strings of fire with soft plainbased bullets were with rotors #13 and #14 which meter charges of 7.2 and 7.8 grains, respectively. These are great for low cost practice, training, and small game, useable in any sound .30-’06 rifle.
​

I could try a few of these, because I have Bullseye (and the Little Dandy), but with gas-checked 150 gr bullets, there are choices available in the Lyman Lead Reloading manual too. BTW, Harris was using 150 gr cast bullets.

I am guessing that after I pull the jacketed bullets, the lead coated bullets (they are supposed to be .309) might not be easy to fit in. I know I shouldn’t resize casings with primers, but can I remove the decapping pin on the resizing die and run them through to expand the necks? Use a collet neck sizing die? I didn’t buy the collet neck sizing die because I got so many who advised to use full-length resizing, but I could buy it. Other ideas?

I’ve never loaded cast bullets. Going forward, is it going to be different from loading jacketed bullets?

Look into the Lee Universal neck expanding die. I use them for cast rifle loads with good success. Just be REAL gentle with your press ram or you'll split the case mouth. It's really NOT a universal neck expanding die - the expander never makes it into the neck - it's a universal case mouth flaring die. That can be useful - sort of. But it is also an excellent die body and you can just cut down the expander inserts on a lathe to something like an expander plug insert; or, just add the expander plugs that NOE makes for them. Then it's a neck expanding die. Get a couple of dies (they're cheap) and either toss the Lee inserts and get the expander plugs from NOE or make your own from the Lee inserts if you have the equipment. No better way to expand cases for cast bullets in my opinion.

 

[Charlie98]

Best thing to do would be to at least neck size the brass. As was mentioned, you will need to either remove the decap pin, or set it so it doesn't punch the primer out while still sizing the neck on pass-through.

Also, as was mentioned, you will need to flare the case mouth a hair to be able to seat cast bullets without shaving lead.... how much that is depends on a number of things. The easiest way to do it is with an M-type die (Lyman or other...) to not only open the neck up slightly, but flare or step the case mouth open, too. Ghetto solution is to use a handgun flare die and bump the case mouth open... I used to use my .380 flare die to open the mouth on my .348WCF brass, until I did the right thing and got a NOE expander and die set... but it worked. You will still need to knock the flare out, if not necessarily crimp it.

Depending on what you are shooting them in... if it's a bolt gun or a single-shot, you don't really need to crimp. If it's a lever-action (with a tubular magazine) or a semi-auto, yes, you will need to roll crimp. For example... I don't crimp my .30-30's going into my Savage 99 lever-action... it has a rotary magazine, so bullet setback is not an issue, but I do crimp my .348's that go in the tubular magazine of my Browning 71. Neck tension is the issue, no matter what kind of bullet you are loading.

 

[Rochester]

Look into the Lee Universal neck expanding die. I use them for cast rifle loads with good success. Just be REAL gentle with your press ram or you'll split the case mouth. It's really NOT a universal neck expanding die - the expander never makes it into the neck - it's a universal case mouth flaring die. That can be useful - sort of. But it is also an excellent die body and you can just cut down the expander inserts on a lathe to something like an expander plug insert; or, just add the expander plugs that NOE makes for them. Then it's a neck expanding die. Get a couple of dies (they're cheap) and either toss the Lee inserts and get the expander plugs from NOE or make your own from the Lee inserts if you have the equipment. No better way to expand cases for cast bullets in my opinion.

I just ordered the Lee Universal Neck Expanding Die. Looks like that should do it. I have the Lee Factory Crimp die, so a light crimp to get the flare out should be the final step, right? Ironically, I was also able to buy 200 Large Rifle Primers at a Local Gun Shop today. I think I am still going to pull the 180gr bullets out of the deer hunting loads though. I know I would probably wreck the bullets, but is there any other reason for not using a vise grip locked on the bullet above the press and just lowering the ram? I’ll have to get a bullet puller eventually.

 

[WeekendReloader]

As mentioned above, you will need to flare the case mouth a bit. This lets the lead bullet slide into the case without getting shaved by the brass mouth. Then using a light crimping action, remove the flare, but no more. You don't want to squish the lead bullet.

 

[GeoDudeFlorida]

I just ordered the Lee Universal Neck Expanding Die. Looks like that should do it. I have the Lee Factory Crimp die, so a light crimp to get the flare out should be the final step, right? Ironically, I was also able to buy 200 Large Rifle Primers at a Local Gun Shop today. I think I am still going to pull the 180gr bullets out of the deer hunting loads though. I know I would probably wreck the bullets, but is there any other reason for not using a vise grip locked on the bullet above the press and just lowering the ram? I’ll have to get a bullet puller eventually.

Wire strippers work better and do less damage.

 

[WeekendReloader]

Pliers or wire cutters, like you describe will pull those bullets right out. No problem.
It may make the pulled bullets unusable, but if you don't care, go for it.