Questions about Uppers and Lowers, and first time buying

[Bryson Chamberlain]

I am newbie when it comes to guns, but want to get into them. I saw a similar thread about buying a complete upper and lower would you have a complete gun, excluding accessories, mags, or ammo. I wanted to ask a couple more questions on top of that. Keep in mind these might be dumb questions, but i'm gonna ask them any way. Do you need to ship the parts to a FFL dealer? How should I go about talking to the gun store? What questions and info do I get from them? Can you have ammo also shipped to them or does it need to go to your place of residence? Any help would be appreciated, Thanks.

 

[Skylerbone]

Some of those questions depend on your location since certain States no longer allow you to buy ammo online. When purchasing a firearm, it must ship to an FFL holder in your State (some States allow long guns to be purchased out of State but they too must be picked up from an FFL dealer).

If you’re looking at an AR (Armalite Rifle) pattern then the upper and all unserialized parts can ship to you, but the lower receiver or complete lower must be shipped to the Federal Firearms License holder. Always check State and local laws and with the dealer you plan to use to ensure you are legal and that they are willing to accept the transfer. They will also charge a fee which can vary considerably so ask first.

 

[WestKentucky]

Lower is the serialized part so it goes to the FFL. Everything else will probably be able to come to your doorstep.

The things you need to have a complete gun are usually these 3 parts...complete upper, complete lower, and bolt carrier group. Make sure your caliber is the same for the upper and bolt carrier group.

If you build the lower then you can buy lower parts kit and a stock kit pretty reasonably. Easy to assemble with very basic tools.

 

[Demi-human]

Do you need to ship the parts to a FFL dealer?

Only the lower receiver.

How should I go about talking to the gun store?

Ask them if they will do transfers. If they do, ask how much they are. Then find the lower or rifle you want. Buy it. Give the seller the phone number of the FFL or phone them and ask them to forward their information to the seller. They will do so and call when it arrives. If you get a shipping delivery notification, call the FFL first. Some shops get deliveries in pallets.

I find that Gun Shops are not usually the best place to find specific information on a certain firearm. It may just be my luck though.

Can you have ammo also shipped to them or does it need to go to your place of residence?

Everything but the lower can be shipped to your home.(Unless you live in an oppressed state.) Which will be infinitely easier than having it sent to the FFL. (Mine wondered why a single box of Greek, Thirty Aught Six cartridges showed up. Luckily I asked about them, he was using them as an attractive paperweight. Everyone is a "New Bee" at one time!)

And read this site a very great deal. As a younger human, some may try to take liberty with your lack of knowledge. Never be in a hurry! Know what you want first, before you buy it.
More than likely, though the evening "news" is sometimes grim, firearms aren't going anywhere.


Last and far from least, Welcome to the Club! The High Road, a clean, well lighted establishment!

 

[Theohazard]

Welcome to THR! Unfortunately, since you're under 21 you can't buy a lower receiver from a dealer, regardless of whether it's a stripped lower or a fully built lower complete with a stock. The only firearms you're allowed to buy from a dealer are full rifles and shotguns.

Now, depending on your state laws you may be able to buy a lower via a private sale. But if you arrange for a friend to buy it from a dealer for you that's a felony straw purchase.

 

[Demi-human]

See, that's what I mean. Great place to learn. Good catch @Theohazard. I didn't know that.

Two and a half months isn't very long to wait, and even less time to learn.

What were you thinking about making? I have assembled a Four Fifty Bushmaster in the fashion you describe.

 

[AlexanderA]

Unfortunately, since you're 21 you can't buy a lower receiver from a dealer, regardless of whether it's a stripped lower or a fully built lower complete with a stock. The only firearms you're allowed to buy from a dealer are full rifles and shotguns.

This needs a bit of clarification for the uninitiated. First of all, the word "under" is missing from the above. You can't buy a lower receiver from a dealer if you're under 21.

The reason you can't buy a lower receiver from a dealer if you're under 21 is that it's classified as an "other" -- not a rifle -- since it potentially can be assembled as a pistol. You have to be 21 to purchase a pistol from a dealer. Incidentally, if a virgin lower is first assembled as a pistol, it can later be made into a rifle, but if it's first assembled as a rifle, it cannot later legally be made into a pistol (that would be an NFA item "a pistol made from a rifle," in other words, a sawed-off rifle).

 

[Theohazard]

This needs a bit of clarification for the uninitiated. First of all, the word "under" is missing from the above. You can't buy a lower receiver from a dealer if you're under 21.

Yeah, I noticed my mistake and edited it about a minute after I first posted.

 

[Bryson Chamberlain]

Welcome to THR! Unfortunately, since you're under 21 you can't buy a lower receiver from a dealer, regardless of whether it's a stripped lower or a fully built lower complete with a stock. The only firearms you're allowed to buy from a dealer are full rifles and shotguns.

Now, depending on your state laws you may be able to buy a lower via a private sale. But if you arrange for a friend to buy it from a dealer for you that's a felony straw purchase.

Thank you for that, I honestly didn't know that. I guess ill wait till august to build one. You guys are awesome, thank you again.

 

[Bryson Chamberlain]

Some of those questions depend on your location since certain States no longer allow you to buy ammo online. When purchasing a firearm, it must ship to an FFL holder in your State (some States allow long guns to be purchased out of State but they too must be picked up from an FFL dealer).

If you’re looking at an AR (Armalite Rifle) pattern then the upper and all unserialized parts can ship to you, but the lower receiver or complete lower must be shipped to the Federal Firearms License holder. Always check State and local laws and with the dealer you plan to use to ensure you are legal and that they are willing to accept the transfer. They will also charge a fee which can vary considerably so ask first.

Thank you for the information, I thought id get flamed at first, but you guys are pretty cool.

 

[Bryson Chamberlain]

Only the lower receiver.


Ask them if they will do transfers. If they do, ask how much they are. Then find the lower or rifle you want. Buy it. Give the seller the phone number of the FFL or phone them and ask them to forward their information to the seller. They will do so and call when it arrives. If you get a shipping delivery notification, call the FFL first. Some shops get deliveries in pallets.

I find that Gun Shops are not usually the best place to find specific information on a certain firearm. It may just be my luck though.


Everything but the lower can be shipped to your home.(Unless you live in an oppressed state.) Which will be infinitely easier than having it sent to the FFL. (Mine wondered why a single box of Greek, Thirty Aught Six cartridges showed up. Luckily I asked about them, he was using them as an attractive paperweight. Everyone is a "New Bee" at one time!)

And read this site a very great deal. As a younger human, some may try to take liberty with your lack of knowledge. Never be in a hurry! Know what you want first, before you buy it.
More than likely, though the evening "news" is sometimes grim, firearms aren't going anywhere.


Last and far from least, Welcome to the Club! The High Road, a clean, well lighted establishment!

Thank you for helping me out, and sorry for the late reply

 

[someguy2800]

Don't be shy about asking a gun shop to do the transfer, they do them everyday and they will know what to do. You'll just need to give them the email address and order number from the place you bought it from. Most places charge around $20-$30 or so for the transfer. Some as high as $50.

Just to reiterate what was said above, the lower receiver has to go to the FFL dealer (any gun store and most pawn shops), all other parts can ship to your house. Make sure you check into the laws on whats legal in your state. Some states require you to have a permit to purchase in order to buy assault type rifles.

 

[BSA1]

Thank you for that, I honestly didn't know that. I guess ill wait till august to build one. You guys are awesome, thank you again.

You realize that you are able to build all of the other parts including a complete Upper and BCG now as only the Lower Receiver is the firearm. Signup for the daily deals on different companies websites so that you can take advantage of any sales for the parts you need.

 

[Coal Dragger]

I’m going to give unpopular advice here to our new member, but it is worth considering:

For your first AR variant rifle don’t build one, buy one. Preferably from a reputable manufacturer that knows what they’re doing and who will fix things in the unlikely event something breaks. For starters since you’re new to shooting there’s a very high probability you don’t know what parts you’d actually want, probably don’t have some of the tools you’d need, and probably don’t want to be frustrated with a rifle that doesn’t work right with no one to turn to but yourself and your own money.

Now before all of you bust out your torches and pitchforks, all of you do a quick search of all the threads on this forum dealing with home built AR’s that don’t work right. There are a lot of them. Sorry to burst everyone’s bubble, but a lot of our members cannot seem to source compatible parts, assemble things correctly, or in some cases even source quality parts to begin with. There were no less than three such threads in the last few weeks... gas port size issues, magazine incompatibility issues with a 9mm build, mismatched feed ramps with a 9mm build, I’m sure if I search again I could find more.

So Bryson, ask yourself if you’re more interested in shooting or more interested in wrenching and troubleshooting? If you like to tinker, and don’t mind throwing money and time at a pile of parts trying to make them work then by all means build a rifle.

Otherwise I suggest acquiring a good 16” barrel M4 variant that is otherwise simple. I don’t know what your budget is but there are a lot of good choices. Then buy magazines, a decent sling, a quality optic Iike an Aimpoint PRO, or Trijicon MRO (or similar) if desired, and ammo. Then get out and shoot, learn what you actually like and dislike about a basic carbine. Chances are you’re going to find that basic carbine is pretty dang capable out of the box.

 

[MistWolf]

I’m going to give unpopular advice here to our new member, but it is worth considering:

For your first AR variant rifle don’t build one, buy one. Preferably from a reputable manufacturer that knows what they’re doing and who will fix things in the unlikely event something breaks. For starters since you’re new to shooting there’s a very high probability you don’t know what parts you’d actually want, probably don’t have some of the tools you’d need, and probably don’t want to be frustrated with a rifle that doesn’t work right with no one to turn to but yourself and your own money.

Now before all of you bust out your torches and pitchforks, all of you do a quick search of all the threads on this forum dealing with home built AR’s that don’t work right. There are a lot of them. Sorry to burst everyone’s bubble, but a lot of our members cannot seem to source compatible parts, assemble things correctly, or in some cases even source quality parts to begin with. There were no less than three such threads in the last few weeks... gas port size issues, magazine incompatibility issues with a 9mm build, mismatched feed ramps with a 9mm build, I’m sure if I search again I could find more.

So Bryson, ask yourself if you’re more interested in shooting or more interested in wrenching and troubleshooting? If you like to tinker, and don’t mind throwing money and time at a pile of parts trying to make them work the by all means build a rifle.

Otherwise I suggest acquiring a good 16” barrel M4 variant that is otherwise simple. I don’t know what your budget is but there are a lot of good choices. Then buy magazines, a decent sling, a quality optic Iike an Aimpoint PRO, or Trijicon MRO (or similar) if desired, and ammo. Then get out and shoot, learn what you actually like and dislike about a basic carbine. Chances are you’re going to find that basic carbine is pretty dang capable out of the box.

This is very good advice.

 

[Theohazard]

I agree with @Coal Dragger. I generally tell new AR owners that they should build an AR only if they like the idea of acquiring all the parts and assembling the rifle themselves, and also if they know exactly what parts they want in their rifle. But the latter is very rarely the case with new AR owners; it’s pretty hard to know what kind of features you want on your AR if you’ve never owned one before. So a new AR owner building a rifle should know that they probably will end up wanting to change some parts soon after building their rifle.

If the only reason you’re building instead of buying a complete rifle is to save money, then that’s probably not a good idea. Yes, you can often spend less money on individual parts than you would on a complete rifle. But after buying the tools needed to assemble it you’re really not saving much money (if any) over buying a full rifle of equivalent parts quality. And, like @Coal Dragger pointed out, the full rifle will probably come from a company that knows how to assemble it properly and offers a warranty if it doesn’t run.

 

[someguy2800]

I believe he just wanted to order a complete upper and lower and snap them together. In any case I agree that a good path to follow is to buy a complete gun and then work out your tastes. Then when you figure out what you really like you can customize it or build another. My AR’s don’t look anything like they did a year ago and I bought and sold a lot of parts to work out what I like. I’ve pretty well got my tastes worked out now. I’m a tinkerer and I can afford to do it, so it’s been a fun learning experience. If you are also a problem solving tinkerer don’t be intimidated to build one from scratch. If you can jet a carburetor you can work out an AR15 build. Just expect it may take tinkering or parts swapping to make it right. Good chance though it will work.

 

[readyeddy]

Don't forget the charging handle. Sometimes when you buy a complete upper the bolt carrier group and charging handle are not included. Also, your upper may have a front sight base, but usually there's no rear sight.

 

[Riomouse911]

Bryson,

Remember one thing; EVERY one of us had similar questions when we first started out. the nice thing for you is 99% of us didn't have internet forums to learn from. So there's no such thing as a dumb question when you're new to something, because if you have a question and you don't ask you'll never learn. We all learned what we did (both good and bad) from family, friends, magazines, face to face talking with clerks at the gun stores, books, classes, etc. Now with the internet, you can get information in fifteen minutes that took many of us years to find out...and that's both good and bad as well.

I agree with buying the whole rifle first rather than piecing one together to start out...especially now since good ones aren't priced through the roof. AR-15's in rifle form can be sold to 18-year-olds (unless your state has just upped that age limit) and they're like Barbie dolls; you can add or subtract pieces and parts to fit your desire. Handguards, pistol grips, stocks, optics, sights, charging handles, etc. they're all easily customizable. The best part is you can buy a 16" barrel for your first gun, then swap it to a 24" with a mounted scope, or go from a 5.56 (.223 Rem) to a myriad of different calibers with nothing more than an upper change and maybe different magazines depending on caliber.

Good luck with your search, and remember everyday is a good day to learn something new. Follow up with additional research on what you're being taught/told if you go to You Tube or Wiki's, and have fun joining the ranks of gun owners here in the US. Young people like you are the future of the 2nd Amendment, and safe and responsible shooters will keep the 2nd strong long into the future.

Stay safe!

 

[md7]

Bryson,

Welcome to THR.

I think Coal Dragger’s post was a great one, and I would encourage you to strongly consider that option.

If not, then I would encourage you to at least purchase a complete lower and then a basic complete upper from a quality manufacturer when you are able, and it’s legal for you to do so. This is what I did when I got my BCM upper/lower from gandrtactical a few years back. It’s basic and plain, but runs like a champ.

Good luck to you, Bryson.

 

[Coal Dragger]

G&R Tactical runs some good deals on BCM uppers and lowers for sure.

The only real caveat that I’ll throw out on slapping together a complete lower with a complete upper is you may need to replace the buffer right away depending on what it is and what the upper is. Generally speaking a 16” carbine length gas system is going to want an H2 or maybe an H3 buffer to smooth out recoil impulse and get the gun timed/tuned correctly, and many lowers will just ship with a lighter carbine buffer with no tungsten weights at all. That’s another reason I’m a proponent of a complete rifle from a good manufacturer, chances are it will be dialed in correctly.

Tough to go wrong with a Colt, SIONICS, BCM, LMT, or Daniel Defense depending on budget. The basic Colt or basic BCM are probably more attainable for most shooters budget wise. When in doubt leave room for the other stuff like mags, sling, optic. Don’t blow your whole budget on the rifle.

 

[Skylerbone]

If you have until August to build, why not peruse the 313 member responses to which AR parts they chose and why: https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?threads/ar-builds-what-parts-did-you-choose-and-why.736364/ That could keep you busy for a few hours with plenty of ideas on what works and where to buy it.

There is merit to starting with a known quantity in a complete rifle, but if you feel confident in your ability to follow basic directions with good execution, I say build. If it needs tuning or adjustments you will learn (and hopefully understand) the why’s behind them.

You will come away with a better understanding of what the rifle does and what it should do rather than a belief that every rifle bought from brand X runs well and need not be looked at. This is all highly dependent on you as we have no knowledge of your abilities, mechanical aptitude, etc. I do think however that stepping up to ask and accepting advice displays a willingness to be educated, a rarity these days.

My final .02 for you; consider buying a .22lr for practice now (and for a lifetime), join a local members only range which tend to follow better safety procedures, and find a mentor. One of the best opportunities/resources in the shooting community are meetings with fellow shooters. Many are happy to take time to assist you in becoming a responsible, proficient marksman until such time as you are ready to mentor others to do the same.

 

[BSA1]

For your first AR variant rifle don’t build one, buy one. Preferably from a reputable manufacturer that knows what they’re doing and who will fix things in the unlikely event something breaks.

Not if the manufacturer doesn’t offer the features he wants.

For starters since you’re new to shooting there’s a very high probability you don’t know what parts you’d actually want, probably don’t have some of the tools you’d need, and probably don’t want to be frustrated with a rifle that doesn’t work right with no one to turn to but yourself and your own money.

I had never shot a AR-15 and probably only handled one once before I decided to build one.

Part of the adventure for me is researching the different builds folks have done and shopping for parts. AR builds #1 and #2 are different due to the ideas I have when I built them. The only same parts they share is the Magpul MOE grip and Magpul plastic back-up sight and the MBUS on #2 is going to be replaced soon with a different sight.

Build #3 which is in progress is a pile of parts in a cardboard box at the moment waiting for more parts until I have enough parts to build something that looks like a AR. I am building it with a different set of criteria. Right now the only thing it is going to share in common with the other two is the MBUS rear sight with AR #1.

The parts for Build #4 are in a small box as I decided to finish Build #3 this summer.

Then there are builds #5 and #6 each of which are going to be different than the others. I have pretty good idea of what they are going to be alas the curse of not having enough money.

Sorry to burst everyone’s bubble, but a lot of our members cannot seem to source compatible parts, assemble things correctly, or in some cases even source quality parts to begin with.

Some people cannot walk and chew gum at the same time either.

So Bryson, ask yourself if you’re more interested in shooting or more interested in wrenching and troubleshooting? If you like to tinker, and don’t mind throwing money and time at a pile of parts trying to make them work then by all means build a rifle.

My pile of parts have worked flawlessly in my two AR builds and I did not throw time and money to have to get them to work right the first time.

 

[BSA1]

If you have until August to build, why not peruse the 313 member responses to which AR parts they chose and why: https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?threads/ar-builds-what-parts-did-you-choose-and-why.736364/ That could keep you busy for a few hours with plenty of ideas on what works and where to buy it.

youtube is another great source of information. I like it as I can actually see the parts be used. The biggest problem is finding the good videos.

youtube fills a lot of dead time I have at work.

There is merit to starting with a known quantity in a complete rifle, but if you feel confident in your ability to follow basic directions with good execution, I say build. If it needs tuning or adjustments you will learn (and hopefully understand) the why’s behind them.

You will come away with a better understanding of what the rifle does and what it should do rather than a belief that every rifle bought from brand X runs well and need not be looked at. This is all highly dependent on you as we have no knowledge of your abilities, mechanical aptitude, etc. I do think however that stepping up to ask and accepting advice displays a willingness to be educated, a rarity these days.

Ar-15's are not particularly hard to assemble otherwise there would not be so many d-I-y ones out there. I do think it is necessary to invest in a good barrel and castle nut wrench (I like magpul). The other tools I have in my toolboxes and on the bench.

And, like he said, there is plenty of good advice on THR.

My final .02 for you; consider buying a .22lr for practice now (and for a lifetime), join a local members only range which tend to follow better safety procedures, and find a mentor.

Always good advice.

 

[someguy2800]

On a scale of mechanical difficulty from 1-10 I would rate building and AR from stripped lower and upper about a 3. I was disappointed when I did my first one that it was so easy.