questions for you reloading vets

[longdayjake]

Because you are wanting to load mostly rifle stuff, I suggest that rather than spending $500 on a progressive, you should buy four of the RCBS Rockchuckers. That way you can have a couple of calibers set up at a time with both the sizing dies and seating dies.

I started out with a Rockchucker. I thought that going to a progressive would be tons better. I found that reloading rifle stuff on a progressive is probably only going to be a ton faster if you do it on a dillon 1050. So, now I have two progressives and two chuckers. One progressive for strictly 9mm and the other to do various kinds of pistol stuff that I don't shoot as often. The two chuckers are for loading up the rifle stuff.

 

[rfwobbly]

Reloading equipment is like modern cars in that they 1) are priced according to features or usefulness, and 2) generally optimized for a specific market segment.

NRA -
All the questions you are asking are wholly dependent upon YOUR preferences, which you have chosen to tell us very little about. The questions you are asking are similar to asking, "What car is good to drive to work?"

Well some of us drive only 2 miles, in which case a Yugo running on 2 cylinders and burning a quart of oil a day will do just fine. Others here who drive 70 miles to work over a mountain pass that is normally covered with ice 9 months a year are going to insist on a vehicle with all-wheel drive. Still others who have to take a load of concrete block with them to the job site are going to tell you that a pickup truck is the only vehicle to have.

Some here insist on automotive features such as heated seats or GPS, that others would consider absolutely frivolous luxuries. And it's the same in the reloading world. The difference in answers is based simply on the responders perception of what is "best". That is to say, "best" for them. Sorry, but only you can say what is "best" for you.

So you need to sit down and determine....
► What calibers you want to reload now and for the foreseeable future (for instance: both rifle and pistol, all rifle, or all pistol)
► How many rounds per week and in what combinations. (For instance: 200 9mm Luger pistol, plus 20 .308 rifle, plus 35 .223 rifle.)
► General quality (plinking vs. Palma match quality)

Hope this helps!

 

[Lost Sheep]

Good questions

hi everyone.

first off, thank you for all of the helpful replies!

it is interesting that there seems to be somewhat of a debate amoungst the shooting community as to whether or not a single stage press is more accurate if any than a progressive.... i guess i was expecting the response to be unanoumously that a single stage would have better results, but that doesnt seem to be the general opinion.

Unanimity is not in our repertoire. Differences of opinion is what improves the breed, yes? (to mix a metaphor)

okay so i have zero handloading/reloading experience, but just looking at videos available on youtube and around the internet, it seemed that the guys running a single stage were taking a lot more time and consideration on their loads. i was lead to believe that using a digital scale with a dispenser for each load would yield more accurate results than the automatic dumper thing (forgot what its called) that is present on the progressive presses...? also the progressive presses skip some stages that guys running a single stage were doing, such as cleaning and sizing the primer pocket. so is this step just not all that important?

Consider yourself blessed. When I started handloading, videos were non-existent and the internet was an experiment in some college geek's undergraduate lab. Automatic dumper? I'm with you. I still don't know what to call it. "Powder Measure" is too generic to specify. Could mean anything. But it seems to be the most popular word choice.

the reason i was thinking of getting a turret was because i was thinking that it could be used as a single stage press but i would would have a little more speed if i wanted to try to handload a little faster....based on the what you all have said i think i will probably get a single stage press for now and ultimatly once i have developed and tested several loads and found what i like, then possably get a nice progressive. but i dont think that the turret is what i want anymore.

You are correct that the turret can act as if it were a single stage, but provide more speed when you change from Batch processing to Continuous. But a really strong single stage is a good thing to have in your tool inventory no matter what else you have.

I load a few hundred rounds at a sitting and an auto-advancing turret is what I chose. If I loaded 300 rounds or more of the same caliber at a sitting, I might choose a progressive (despite my discomfort with multiple operations occurring simultaneously-I have a hard time keeping track.) because of the efficiency.

It is a matter of balancing personal comfort and style against efficiency. And money. Good progressives are expensive. Cheap progressives cost you in different ways than dollars.

more questions:
several times people have said that the quality of the rounds produced will be dependent on the quality of the dies used (i guess not so much the press?) what features should i look for that makes one die higher quality than another? what dies are you using that you feel are the highest quality?

more important (my opinion) than the brand of dies is if they fit your reloading style. If you have a process/procedure/algorithm that suits you, use the dies that can perform in that sequence. Very little variation in accuracy between brands of dies. Large variation of convenience between brands of dies.

how acurate are the powder dumps on the progressive presses compared to using a digital scale to measure and fill each case individually?

You want accuracy? Don't use digital. (another opinion, but supported by theory as well as by fact) A mechanical balance beam scale is immune from electromagnetic effects of flourescent lights, voltage fluctuations and long "settling down" setup times. All factors of digital scales, though the better ones are better, nothing is as good as a decent balance beam. And you don't have to buy batteries.

is it important to crimp rounds? i have three semi autos and the rest are bolt action, if this is relevant to crimping.

You taper crimp most semi-auto rounds, as they headspace on the case mouth. A roll crimped case mouth won't headspace with reliability. Rimmed or shouldered cases headspace on the rim or on the shoulder, so crimping is less critical for headspace, but is still critical for strength of bullet pull. Bullet pull is VERY important for establishing the correct pressure, which is essential for the proper burn and pressure.

how relevant is it to clean the primer pocket? seems like the progressives just punch the primer out and pop a new one in. are you guys that are using progressives removing your primers first, cleaning them, and then just skipping this stage on the progressive? or are you just skipping the primer pocket cleaning all together?

Case length trimming and primer pocket uniforming are important for good feeding, headspacing, accuracy, etc, but do not have to be performed every time you reload a case.

Primer pocket uniforming may only be required once in the life of a case. How often case length uniforming may be required depends on many factors. Hot loads, soft brass, more often than light loads or stiff brass.

There are "Many ways to skin a cat". I hope my observations and opinions have shed some light. Your questions show forethought and insight. Good for you.

Lost Sheep

 

[nra-for-life]

hey wobbly,

the calibers id like to load are 204 ruger, 223, 22-250, 308, 300wsm, 300 win mag. so 100% rifle.

as for how much i plan to load in a week that is something i dont know if i can answer. i guess it varies a lot and part of my wanting to reload is to help get me out more to practice my long range shooting. i do a lot of hunting, i usually always try to sight in prior to hunting and i like to hunt pigs several times a year. i also deer hunt usually one to two times a year. i also shoot a lot out at my duck club in the winter on the bluebird days when the ducks are not flying. i hunt coyotes a few times a year usually and i have a few spots that are great for mountain quail and varment. in between hunting my family and friends do a lot of camping and shooting. a lot of times when i hunt my friends and i will stay out and shoot for a while.

i guess on quality id like to err on the side of higher quality. im not trying to compete on a bench but id like like to be able to shoot the highest quality i can. i have two rifles built by a gunsmith called accuracy systems that i would like to develope some loads for to try to see what groups they are capable of. one is a mini 14 in .223 and the other is a remington 700 in 300winmag. my other rifles range in quality and are used for hunting except for my ar 15 which, other than maybe an occasional ground squirrel, is just for plinking. i love all my guns and i love to test myself and my guns against my friends and to set personal bests on group sizes. so where that puts me between plinking and palma match quality, ill let you be the judge and advise me accordingly.

hopefully that can help you advise me on what to get.

anyway ive been doing more research. ive had the some specific advice from a member here in a P.M. I just read the book: the abc's of reloading. i think ive set upon buying a single stage press, at least for now. id like to buy a high quality one. i was thinking of the forster, i saw it on sale for like $250 ish. also my local sportsmans warehouse is having a sale on the rock chucker kit right now that has the press and a scale and a bunch of basic stuff for about $250 also. im not sure what im going to yet.

anyone here using the forster? also what are your thoughts on the hornady lock and load bushings? seems like it would be pretty good for me because i think im going to be doing a lot of caliber changes. thanks again for all the advice, it is much aprreciated.

 

[codefour]

Well, here is my $ 0.02 worth from a member that was in the same boat as you a 18 months ago.

The progressive vs. single stage dilemna in my experience, there is not much difference when it comes to accuracy with two exceptions: You will have greater observation and quality control on a single stage. I load my hunting / match ammunition on a single stage because I like to trickle the exact, desired charge. I guess you could trickle on a pogressive but would be rather tedious.

I started with a used Rock Chucker Jr ($40 from fleabay) and then purchased a Redding Big Boss II. The Redding press is IMHO better than a standard R/C and has greater levereage. It is offset at the case openeing and the spent primer collection is really good. The slide primer arm works great as well. It is onyl 20 or 30 more dollars than the R/C.

But, a progressive does have its place. When i am loading bulk blasting ammo in .223, I can crank out the rounds on my RCBS Pro 2000.

Start on a single and work your way up. Your reloading bench will grow. Mine did. I had to build a second bench! I didnt mind.

 

[rfwobbly]

the calibers id like to load are 204 ruger, 223, 22-250, 308, 300wsm, 300 win mag. so 100% rifle.

hopefully that can help you advise me on what to get.

anyway ive been doing more research. ive had the some specific advice from a member here in a P.M. I just read the book: the abc's of reloading. i think ive set upon buying a single stage press, at least for now. id like to buy a high quality one. i was thinking of the forster, i saw it on sale for like $250 ish. also my local sportsmans warehouse is having a sale on the rock chucker kit right now that has the press and a scale and a bunch of basic stuff for about $250 also. im not sure what im going to yet.

anyone here using the forster? also what are your thoughts on the hornady lock and load bushings? seems like it would be pretty good for me because i think im going to be doing a lot of caliber changes. thanks again for all the advice, it is much appreciated.

Ah! Thank you. Now we can get somewhere!

► Your PM was correct. You're going to reload less than 50 rifle rounds, with a maximum of maybe 3 calibers per week, with the caliber mix changing throughout the year. I too will tell you that any kind of true progressive will be a waste of your time and money because of the need for "case trim". Therefore your choices are (only in order of number of choices) single-stage, traditional turret, or maybe the Lee classic turret.

► Understand that in the context of quality , anything you reload is going to be twice the quality of factory rounds, even if you use a rusty Rock Chucker from the late 1960's. So if you are typically satisfied with the accuracy of factory, then you'll be grinnin' like a pig in you-know-what after you settle in with whatever system you choose.

► The average reloader with your needs typically ends up with a mixture of brands. That is to say, since there in no single kit that supplies everything you need, reloaders of your genre typically 'pick and choose' to get the best pieces from several brands. Most of these people end up with 5-7 different brands over 20 years in the hobby. Picking the best of this and that as the need arises, and as time and money allow. But if you're willing to hurry things up a bit and 'spend your children's inheritance' then it can be done from the start!

The Press
You want a good strong press with LOTS of leverage. Make sure the press will open wide enough to accept your longest cartridge. O-frame presses (like the RCBS Rock Chucker, and Redding Big Boss) are the most prevalent, which, due to frame flexure/distortion, are usually preferred over the open-front C-frame. A twist on this would be the traditional turret like the Redding T-7 or Lyman T-Mag. These allow you to leave a greater number of dies in-place, which can be an asset when you don't own a spare press for odd jobs. The Forester has a action all it's own. It is the least common press but may be the most accurate, that is to say, bench rest quality.

For the budget conscientious, Lee makes several presses which are all half the price of those above which can be great ways to start off.

Considering everything, cleanliness will probably play a huge part in your 'gosh I wish I would have known' list 1 year from today. May I suggest starting with the Redding line up and work up or down from there.

Scales / Powder Measures
You have 2 ways to go. You can get a basic beam scale and a good powder measure which is accurate, inexpensive, and will sever you for decades. Or you can get a high-end electronic scale that measures out every load. You have previously pointed to the later, and if you can afford it, this would be a great way to go. What you do not want to have is a cheap electronic sale anywhere in the mix.

Static is a big issue in dealing with powder. Therefore great powder measures tend to have all metal parts. The exception to this are the high-end electronic scale dispenser types.

Trimmers
All bottleneck rifle cartridges have to be trimmed at some point. Trimming is a pain and the "better" trimmers tend to be motorized simply because some of us here trim 500 to 1000 cases at a time. That's not you. Any basic hand operated trimmer, as long as it's bolted down, will serve you well. Start with the Lyman as the low-end choice and work up. The Lyman offers a drill motor adapter if the job gets to be too much. Avoid anything that's not bench-mounted.

Starter Kits
Of the starter kits, the Lyman T-Mag comes the closest to what you need due to it including a case trimmer. RCBS Rock Chucker and Hornady Classic are probably next. None of these kits includes a 6" caliper. Most of these kits do include a bottom-end electronic scale of dubious life expectancy.

Hope this helps!

 

[35 Whelen]

You want a good strong press with LOTS of leverage.

While I agree that presses with lots of leverage are nice they certainly aren't required. I have an old Rockchucker (and by the way, a "rusty Rock Chucker from the late 1960's" is as good as the latest, greatest, shiniest O-frame press. That's why they've been around for 40+ years) as well as an older Hornady 007. I still find myself using the petite little Lyman turret press even though it doesn't have near the leverage. On that little turret press I've loaded a couple dozen calibers ranging from the .22 Hornet to a 358 Norma Mag and that inclides straight wall numbers like the 45-70, 357 Mag., etc.
Don't over think this. Just buy good equipment!
35W