Questions on the sear and disconnector 1911

[brentn]

Tonight I have learned a great many things about my 1911... I've learned pretty much exactly how the disconnector works in relation to the sear. It makes perfect sense once you grasp the concept, and in the end gives you a much better understanding on the internal function of the 1911.

I've also learned that my 1911 norinco commander has probably the WORST trigger pull possible on a 1911. Guns built tough? yes indeed. Guns tuned? absolutley not...

So I have the frame, trigger, sear and disconnector going with the hammer installed. I'm filing down some tension on the sear spring, and yes I know the consequences that can outcome in this action. If I weaken the spring too much, trigger pull on the sear will be better, but upon pistol cycling there is not enough tension to push the sear back onto the full cock notches on the hammer quick enough.. Too much tension and you have a ****ty ****ty trigger pull.

So anyways I'm grinding away slowly using a wetstone on the side of the sear spring, just grinding off enough to make a slight difference. Constantly I'm fitting it back into the frame, slide the mainspring housing on and put the mainspring pin in halfway to hold it.
Cock the hammer and pull slowly on the trigger, seeing if any difference has been achieved.

After polishing the hammer notches and surfaces, the sear tip and sides, the engagement parts of the disconnector and the trigger.. all sides.. I have done all that I can do without proper machinery and better spare parts that I can do to this pistol.

Anyways, to the point of this post. With the above installed and nothing else I'm watching the trigger touch the disconnector, then the disconnector touching the sear. The amount of pull from the time it takes for the disconnector to touch the sear is quite a bit, like a big dead space.

So question.
Is it the sear that we perfect to the disconnector, or is it the disconnector that we perfect to the sear?

I'm sure in a real quality built 1911 the disconnector will almost immediatly touch the sear with trigger pull, unlike my norinco.. So do the manufacturers work with an oversized sear and and file away at it until its perfect? Or do they cut the parts out at a particular tolerence, do no filing and fit the sear and disconnector together, resulting in an almost immediate engagement of disconnector to sear contact?

Does anyone understand what I'm talking about? some guru advice would be appreciated..

thank you for your time.

 

[cdrt]

I'm no expert on 1911 gunsmithing, but it's my understanding that to lighten the trigger pull, you just need to bend (very carefully) the center leg of the sear spring back, not remove metal from it.

As to your other question, more educated members will have to respond.

 

[gyp_c2]

uhhhh...

...you need to go here...
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=61238
Don't cut on anything else for awhile...just read...

 

[brentn]

I'm really not to worried, I only took off not even a fraction of an inch on that thing... The sear spring is really really hard steel.

yea I did go there and read, thanks.

 

[spook]

Using Tuner's 'Poor Man's Trigger Job' I've reworked the triggers on a Springfield Milspec and a DW Patriot. By far the most significant improvement came with substituting the existing sear springs with Colt springs.

 

[redneckrepairs]

Bretn If i may suggest it . Get a new sear spring ( the 3 leaf flat spring ) and tune it by bending rather than grinding . In my experience leaf springs will tolerate bending , but grinding the edges tends to lead to premature breakage . something about stress factors i suspect . Anyway i have found it best not to grind on any part of a leaf spring , rather reset it manualy .

 

[brentn]

I see... thank you.

I'll have to search up on how to bend this, as i don't want to do it wrong, but I certainly don't mind trying it out myself.

I've seen some of the wilson combat leaf springs for like 10$, would they already be set for a good trigger pull, or is some bending in order?

What about the disconnector-sear engagement, is it normal for it to have so much play?

 

[Big Az Al]

Lighten the trigger spring?

All the teachers I have ever had on doing trigger jobs, ALL taught that first you work the sear notch on the hammer, When the hammer/sear interaction is as Smoooooooth as ice, and you haven't made it so that you are able to push the hammer past the sear without touching the trigger, (that is unsafe,) then you have a trigger!

Before that you are only pushing that cart with the horse! Or trying to push that rope up hill!

Then and only then do you start working A SPRING!

So have you worked the hammer sear until it is smooth?

Most peoples eyes light up at this point, and working the spring is just gilding the lilly. A crisp smooth trigger that go's from being squeezed, to let off with no sense of movement before the click is what it is all about.

Also have you shot several thousend rounds of ammo? Do you shoot 200 or more rounds a week?

A No answer to either of these questions,

and what you need is trigger that is crisp and smooth, but also heavey-enough to put up with all the invoulentary movements and muscle tweaks, (that only get ironed out with lots and lots of good practice,) and not go off.

In IMHO the greatest feeling in the world is while shooting (either at game or a paper target) one of my heavey, but crisp smooth triggers, is feeling the flinch happen, without the gun go off, and then being able to take a deep breath, while telling myself to relax and let the shot happen. At that point what should have been a miss is almost always a money shot!

There are some other tuning tips, but there again, I was taught that I should only share then hands on, where I and the recipient, are enteracting and I can see if it is being recived well or sailing right on thru without sticking!

Also IMHO a one box of shells a year shooter, getting a 2 or 3 pound trigger, has made the game being hunted safe to grew bigger for another year! Because we all flinch to some extent. And most shooters that only rarely and the even greatly fewer that never flinch, are either beyond being human, or did it with lots and lots and then more practice!

 

[brentn]

I see. Thanks for your input.
I have shot about 400 rounds over the last month and a half to tell you the truth, i'm not a huge shooter.

I just wanted better accuracy, and to get that I'm learning how to shoot and I also wanted to have a 'better' trigger pull.

I'm not looking for like 3.5 pound pull here, lol, i'm looking for something that is better than what I have. basically what I have done, has improved it, and IMO, the gun is still very safe to shoot.

I think the last thing I want to ask is,

Can you get a shorter trigger pull rather than just a crisper one?
What would happen if you added on a little bit of metal onto the back of the trigger bar, the part that contacts the disconnector/sear? Would that be bad?

 

[Big Az Al]

Making a 1911 trigger longer

Brownells, cataloglists a

Trigger stirrup die, this tool, "makes easy to smooth out bends in production triggers, and match fit then for precise no wobble travel"

Page #122 cat # 58 (I am not sure this is a current catalog, but they can referance anyway) part # 080-710-045 uncoded price 24.97

I have heard of smiths using these to stretch the trigger slightly.

This type of job is a tap try over and over again until you are happy or the part becomes to long and it is time to start over or give up. It could take ten minutes or 10 hours to get it right in other words!

 

[Big Az Al]

Also

there my be somethings that can be done, in very small steps that help, but because parts rubbing on each other, and burnishing occuring (thats a kind of self polishing) any close tolerance work needs to be checked and rechecked for safety, and after every shooting session whether it is ten rounds or a hundred, checked yet again.

The way the sear disconnector enteract I think that if you get to, to short a clearance in the trigger set up, the disconnector won't reconnect. But with good sear engagment, and just a little slack a total trigger is probably .030 or a very little less in movement. that is going to be darn hard to say I feel that.

 

[fecmech]

"Can you get a shorter trigger pull rather than just a crisper one?
What would happen if you added on a little bit of metal onto the back of the trigger bar, the part that contacts the disconnector/sear? Would that be bad"



The take up on the trigger has never bothered me but it did for a friend of mine. His answer was to solder a piece of feeler gauge of the correct thickness to the back side of the trigger bow to take up the slop.